4.6L V8 coolant loss

[Sponzbob26]

Hi there! Not sur if you still active in the forum? I found your information interesting. I have recently bought a v8, 4.6l and also have signs of a blown head gasket. I'm not entirely sure and need to do some checking. Will wait to hear back and will ask further advise if you willing.

Ta Sponzbob.

 

[eeprete]

Hi there! Not sur if you still active in the forum? I found your information interesting. I have recently bought a v8, 4.6l and also have signs of a blown head gasket. I'm not entirely sure and need to do some checking. Will wait to hear back and will ask further advise if you willing.

Ta Sponzbob.

Hi, feel free to ask whatever you'd like. a major challenge with these especially my Limited is there are so many paths and hoses where coolant travels it could even be a drip burning itself off....

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi! Thanks for getting back. How is your explorer going at the moment? Do you still experiencing the same problem with coolant loss?

I bought my explorer from a friend and started studying what I need to check first before removing the heads. She had also issues with coolant loss and took it to a garage for checks which they could not find anything. I'm unsure and doubt she has gone for all the pressure, leak down and vacuum tests. The signs I picked up so far is thick sludgy milky build up down the oil filling hole.

I found it interesting that your cylinder 2 seems to show signs of issues. Have you checked the results after the rebuild?

My thinking is to do a pressure leak test in each cylinder chamber followed by a compression test as you did. The sign for head gasket seems there due to the thick milk sludge in the oil fling line. Would you say that could be from something else? Apart from your oil cap that had sludge underneath it, did you have it down the oil filling line too at first?

Also, before you done your head rebuild, did your engine light stay on all the time?

Sponzbob!

 

[eeprete]

Hi! Thanks for getting back. How is your explorer going at the moment? Do you still experiencing the same problem with coolant loss?

I bought my explorer from a friend and started studying what I need to check first before removing the heads. She had also issues with coolant loss and took it to a garage for checks which they could not find anything. I'm unsure and doubt she has gone for all the pressure, leak down and vacuum tests. The signs I picked up so far is thick sludgy milky build up down the oil filling hole.

I found it interesting that your cylinder 2 seems to show signs of issues. Have you checked the results after the rebuild?

My thinking is to do a pressure leak test in each cylinder chamber followed by a compression test as you did. The sign for head gasket seems there due to the thick milk sludge in the oil fling line. Would you say that could be from something else? Apart from your oil cap that had sludge underneath it, did you have it down the oil filling line too at first?

Also, before you done your head rebuild, did your engine light stay on all the time?

Sponzbob!

I still experience some level of coolant loss. I just check it regularly instead. As for the sludge in the fill tube, don't base your decision on that alone. The fill tube is long, allowing for plenty of condensation to build up. Check your coolant degas bottle for presence of exhaust gases. Do the typical pressure testing of the system. Check all the typical items. Does your exp have rear heat? If so there is a second core at the rear of the vehicle. What symptoms are you seeing.

 

[eeprete]

No my engine light has never been on.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi Eeprete, thanks for the advice. I am planning to do some checks today. Process will be slow. Will keep you posted.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi Eeprete,

I found lots of water in the oil. Coolant is making its way into the oil passage and into the sump. 2 scenarios are likely. Either cracked block or head gasket. I started removing parts to take the heads off. I currently do this with engine still in the car bay. Not sure if this will work out. My concerns are I will have problems when mounting it back again especially torque the bolts at the back. Any thoughts, do you think it is possible or not?

I will also post a picture, hopefully I can do it.

Cheers for now

 

[Captj122]

I had a similar problem, very slow loss of coolant over a few months. I was going from Fla to Pa. and had a big puff of white smoke on 75. Stopped at local dealer. They found the lower rad. hose leaking on engine side, rpl. It still had a slow loss. Checked everything I could, a couple trips to my repair shop, everything in specs. Finally eng. froze on 26. Ended on with a new engine. Fixed the problem, but it cost 4k. It happened at 120k miles. 02 xlt 4.6 4wd. I hope you have better luck than I. I did keep in touch with the mechanic the did the work, but never did find the exact problem

 

[eeprete]

Sponzbob26, how have you fared?

 

[golfpro99]

You may want to check your intake manifold, especially if it has the plastic thermostat housing. After replacing the manifold, my coolant leak went away. I also found a recall notice posted on the web.

Hope this might help someone.

 

[eeprete]

golfpro99, interesting as I was just about to post again.

After 4+ years of troubleshooting, I THINK I may have found the problem, and it may be as you suspect. I've tried to figure out based on heating and cooling cycles why sometimes it uses a bunch and sometimes it does not. After all I drove to Baltimore and back and used less than 5 oz, yet I've driven around the neighborhood for two weeks and used more...

Well, pressure testing the system when cold showed no loss of pressure.

On the later 4.6s, the intake manifold is part plastic, part aluminum. The crossover portion is aluminum and is often not suspect in the loss even with Ford techs. After all they went to the aluminum crossover to eliminate a similar issue in the plastic non-PI intakes.

Well a week ago, I had been low on coolant, and added it to the full mark, but wound up adding some extra on accident. Well, I drove the vehicle about 150 miles that day. Came home, checked it the next morning, and it was actually down to the low full mark. So about 15 oz in 150 miles, an exorbitant amount of use. I popped the hood, smelt some coolant, and started poking around with a flashlight and low and behold, the integrated plastic gasket under the intake on the passenger port was slightly wet.

I then topped it off properly again. Drove the car for the last week, with no noticeable use at all, and drove over 300 miles. My wife now used it last night to meet some friends for food and the movies, and checking it this morning, well it used about 3 oz. Pop the hood, low and behold I can see the passenger side of the intake by the bolt is slightly wet......

Before I change the intake, I am going to check to ensure the intake is torqued properly when hot. If that solves it, great, if not, then I guess I too will be doing an intake once the weather breaks for us.

 

[golfpro99]

Sounds like you may be close to slaying this dragon.

I'm guessing Ford redesigned the manifold between 2002 and 2003. My original manifold did not have the aluminum cross over. The replacement part does.

Hopefully, a little torque will fix your problem. On the bright side, if you end up having to replace the manifold, it is not a terribly difficult repair. It does take some time and patience.

There is a thread with some great information about this repair. Check this out:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361187

Good luck.

 

[Sponzbob26]

Hi eeprete!
Update from my last post:
I am still in the 'repair' stage. I took the heads off and it is currently at a pro shop. I received news today that the heads are both good in hardness, flatness and also no cracks in it. The guy at the engineering told me they checked the cams and found them scorched and worn at the runners. (Sorry if I get the terminology wrong!) I found it surprising as the cams are pretty hard. If they are worn then the whole engine should be worn! I am planning to put it back together soon.

What I found when I removed the heads seems to be traces of leak paths between the cooling ports. I got a second opinion from my colleague at work and he is convinced that the leak paths made it through the head bolts into the sump.

Of course there is that minuscule chance for the block to have a crack in, but from reading lots of posts and what I have seen on the gasket I just going to go with that theory. I am not 100% convinced, but I can’t see what else I need or can do.

My intake manifold has the part aluminium in the cooler. Is yours the full plastic version or also part aluminium? I had a look at these and cannot see how water will leak into the oil compartment. Thanks for the advise golfpro99 I will check again.


My next steps are to clean the block and get the necessary gaskets for reassemble.

 

[eeprete]

Hi eeprete!
Update from my last post:
I am still in the 'repair' stage. I took the heads off and it is currently at a pro shop. I received news today that the heads are both good in hardness, flatness and also no cracks in it. The guy at the engineering told me they checked the cams and found them scorched and worn at the runners. (Sorry if I get the terminology wrong!) I found it surprising as the cams are pretty hard. If they are worn then the whole engine should be worn! I am planning to put it back together soon.

What I found when I removed the heads seems to be traces of leak paths between the cooling ports. I got a second opinion from my colleague at work and he is convinced that the leak paths made it through the head bolts into the sump.

Of course there is that minuscule chance for the block to have a crack in, but from reading lots of posts and what I have seen on the gasket I just going to go with that theory. I am not 100% convinced, but I can’t see what else I need or can do.

My intake manifold has the part aluminium in the cooler. Is yours the full plastic version or also part aluminium? I had a look at these and cannot see how water will leak into the oil compartment. Thanks for the advise golfpro99 I will check again.


My next steps are to clean the block and get the necessary gaskets for reassemble.

Take your time cleaning the block surface. Also your block nay be aluminum, like mine, which is the same block used in the 2003-2004 SVT Mustang Cobras. In those cars they are nicknamed "aluminator" blocks. They are tough as nails. If your heads are straight then your block is more than likely as well.

Yes my intake has the aluminum crossover. As far as I know all late 2002 and newer explorers have it. I only read of a recall on the plastic ones, but obviously these seem to have a point of failure as well.

In any event I'd suggest installing a new intake as well.

 

[Captj122]

golfpro99, what recall are you talking about?
Did I end up buying a new engine, not knowing of a recall

 

[eeprete]

golfpro99, what recall are you talking about?
Did I end up buying a new engine, not knowing of a recall

thats a good question too. I can't find any info on a recall other than 99-01 and early 02 intakes. The ones that were plastic. What's sad is the amount of people I have seen with a similar issue and there has been no action that I've seen from Ford. Obviously with the affected vehicles anywhere between 9-12 years old there will be none, but imagine if we all had recourse for a 2 hr fix of a $200 part?

 

[Captj122]

I looked again and cannot find anything about the recall. 2002-4.6-xlt-4wd /tow package--Only recalls I ever recved. were for the cruise and the back glass pistons????

 

[golfpro99]

Recall

Found the following information on AlldataDIY.com.

The Recall Number is 05N04; Campaign -Intake Manifold Extended Warranty Coverage.

The Dealer Letter was published December 14, 2005.

"Program 05N04 covers one intake manifold replacement per vehicle. Program 46B01 covers one refund per vehicle. The replacement program will show on OASIS as 05N04 and the refund program will show as 46B01. If you receive a refund request for a vehicle that no longer has 46B01 open on OASIS call the Special Service Support Center for prior approval."

Hope this is helpful.

By the way. I used the Doorman replacement intake manifold. Replacement took me about 8 hours give or take. I am not a mechanic but do like to tinker with things. The replacement manifold has the aluminum crossover. My original was all composite. After repair was completed -- No more leaks!

 

[eeprete]

as far as I can tell, this is the recall I was previously mentioning and is very well known. My mothers Crown Vic and grandfathers Crown Vic were part of this one...

Here are details further:

Frank M. Ligon
Director
Service Engineering Operations
Ford Customer Service Division

Ford Motor Company
P.O. Box 1904
Dearborn, Michigan 48121

December 14, 2005

TO: All U.S. Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealers

SUBJECT: Extended Coverage Program 05N04 Certain 1996 through 2002 Vehicles Equipped with 4.6L 2V Engine:
• 1996–2001 Grand Marquis
• 1996-2001 Town Car
• 1996-2001 Crown Victoria
• 1997 Cougar, Thunderbird
• 1997-2001 Mustang
• 2002 Explorer and Mountaineer
Extended Coverage for Composite Intake Manifold

PROGRAM TERMS

This program is being provided as a settlement to a class action lawsuit. The terms of the settlement extend the coverage of the all-composite intake manifold to 7 years from the original warranty start date of the vehicle, with no limit on the number of miles that the vehicle has been driven. Coverage is automatically transferred to subsequent owners.

VEHICLES COVERED BY THIS PROGRAM




Model
Model Year
Build Dates

Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis
1996 - 2001
Job#1 1996 through Job last 2001

Town Car
1996 - 2001
Job#1 1996 through Job last 2001

Mustang
1997 - 2001
June 25, 1997 through Job last 2001

Thunderbird and Cougar
1997
July 14, 1997 through September 4, 1997

Explorer and Mountaineer
2002
Job#1 2002 through July 27, 2001


Affected vehicles are identified in OASIS.

REASON FOR PROVIDING ADDITIONAL COVERAGE

Some of the all-composite intake manifolds used on 4.6L SOHC engines may develop fatigue cracks at the coolant crossover duct which could result in external coolant leakage. Drivers may be alerted of this potential leakage by the coolant level and/or coolant temperature warning systems.

SERVICE ACTION

Repair Coverage Program 05N04:
If an intake manifold coolant leak is detected at the coolant crossover duct, the dealer will perform a one-time replacement of the intake manifold. Owners of the affected vehicles have been notified through a class action lawsuit settlement notification that additional coverage for this specific condition is being provided. The coverage will be for 7 years from the warranty start date of the vehicle. If you are not able to determine the warranty start date of a vehicle, call the Special Service Support Center for assistance. There is no mileage limitation for this program and coverage is automatically transferred to subsequent owners.

Refund Coverage Program 46B01:
This program will also provide reimbursement to customers that have paid to have the intake manifold replaced within 7 years of the warranty start date but before the date the settlement became effective, which was December 16, 2005.

The replacement and refund coverage eligibility for this program will be listed separately in OASIS as 05N04 for replacement and 46B01 for refund. Refer to Attachment I for details.

ATTACHMENTS

Attachment I: Administrative Information
Attachment II: Labor Allowances and Parts Ordering Information
Attachment III: Technical Information regarding how to inspect vehicles for customers that seek reimbursement without a receipt. (Refer to shop manual for intake manifold replacement instructions)
Notice of Proposed Settlement of Class Action and Settlement Fairness Hearing (This document contains the declaration page that needs to be signed by the customer and attached to repair orders that are processed for refunds without receipts)

QUESTIONS?

Special Service Support Center (Dealer Only) Questions: …….… 1-800-325-5621
Parts Support Center (Dealer only) Questions: …………………… 1-800-207-2444

 

[D Hook]

I'm afraid that's more of an extended warranty package than a recall.

PROGRAM TERMS

"This program is being provided as a settlement to a class action lawsuit. The terms of the settlement extend the coverage of the all-composite intake manifold to 7 years from the original warranty start date of the vehicle, with no limit on the number of miles that the vehicle has been driven. Coverage is automatically transferred to subsequent owners."

I think this would've ended in 2009.