Interior Lights Not Coming On! Please help.

[OneLever]

the light above my rear seat (so interior light #2?) is burned out. Any possibility this blown light is preventing the others from being triggered on?

No. My second row interior light has been blown out for a long time and it does not affect the other lights.

OK...get a meter.... and check to see why the relay isn't working.

Get a multimeter and remove the Interior lamp relay shown in Picture 6 of Post #4 above. On the underside of the relay each pin should be labeled with a number. From this you can deduce what the numbers for the pin receptacles are. The Battery saver relay needs to be activated for the following test. It can be activated by simply placing the ignition in RUN. It will remain activated by the GEM after the ignition is placed in OFF for around 30 minutes if the doors are not locked and shut if I recall correctly.

With the Battery saver relay activated check the voltage across Interior lamp relay Pin 3 & Pin 5. It should read battery voltage of around 12.3 V. Shut all of the doors, the rear hatch, and the rear hatch glass. The Door Ajar lamp on the dash should be off and there should be no chime.

Open each door, the rear hatch, and the rear hatch glass by itself one at a time. The Door Ajar lamp on the dash should light up for each one. Check the voltage each time across Interior lamp relay Pin 1 & Pin 2. It should read battery voltage of around 12.3 V only when a door has been opened. It should drop to 0 V when the door is shut.

Ps. anyone know where to find a wiring schematic online?...Any arguments with a Haynes? or is there a better one?

I highly recommend getting a service (shop) manual. Haynes and Chilton are good for fluid capacity specifications and that is about it. The original paper service manual is a two volume set which you can get off ebay. I also got the Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (wiring manual) with mine as well. Here is a general link of what you are looking for, and a specific link to an EVTM. I believe I paid about $60 for both volumes of the service manual and two copies of the EVTM as a set. These hard copies are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Topol_86]

Onelever, thanks for the valued insight of where to actually start checking. I've got a multimeter, and the snow seems to be letting up, so hopefully I'll have a chance to get back out tomorrow and give it a shot. Thanks for the advice on the shop manual. Hopefully the budget allows for that purchase, I'm sure it's MORE than worth it's weight in gold.

Budwich, I also see what you're saying, while I didn't actually replace anything (just switched around as previously suggested) I completely understand what you mean. Without actually checking any voltage, I was going at it blind. And yes, I knew that the switch didn't use the relay =), thanks though.

Once again, thanks all for helping and offering your insight, knowledge and suggestions, GREATLY appreciated. This site is #1 on my list of favourite forums.

 

[Topol_86]

Had a chance to get out with the meter... with the key in the "on" position, doors open one at a time, doors all open at the same time, doors all shut, made no difference. I had a reading of 0v from pin 3 to 5, and 0v from pin 1 to 2. So, the relay for the interior lamps is not getting power, correct? Next step would be to check the source it receives power from. I'd love to. Where is it?

 

[bobflood]

Certainly sounds like the battery saver relay may be staying open and not delivering power to activate the interior light relay. Did you check to see if you had voltage at any one of the pins in the interior relay socket by measuring between each pin and an external ground?? This might tell you if your issue is with the hot side or the ground side of the circuit. (This is unencumbered by knowledge, I'm afraid, as I don't have a circuit diagram handy.)

 

[Topol_86]

Yes, tried each pin with an external ground, still 0v across the board.

 

[bobflood]

Yes, tried each pin with an external ground, still 0v across the board.

Well, at least you know that your issue is upstream of that relay. Looks like you really need a good circuit diagram to troubleshoot this. Wish I could help, but all I have is the same Haynes book you have.

 

[1st explorer]

start with the basics,replace the door latch,that has the switch for your courtesy lights,then go upstream to check for repairs.mike

 

[budwich]

Had a chance to get out with the meter... with the key in the "on" position, doors open one at a time, doors all open at the same time, doors all shut, made no difference. I had a reading of 0v from pin 3 to 5, and 0v from pin 1 to 2. So, the relay for the interior lamps is not getting power, correct? Next step would be to check the source it receives power from. I'd love to. Where is it?

I can see that this might be a problem. Go slow and be clear on your observations and you'll get to the bottom of this.

First, these "measurement" are being done with the relay removed and you are "touching" the socket where the relay was plugged in, .... right???

Back to basics... next... you always measure to a known point, in this case a known ground.... find somewhere where there is lots of metal or ground strap near/around the dash area (there are ways to ensure you have a known ground but hopefully we can go pass that... my fingers are crossed). Put one lead there. Next touch the other lead on pin 1 of the connector where the relay was plugged in. Read the DC voltage... IF you have a door recently opened and its still open, THEN the reading should be ~12v. IF not, try again with your key to ON.... what's reading now? Further, with your key ON, open your glove box, is there a light on? The answer to these will quickly tell you where your problem lies.

 

[PopRichie77]

Just one little thing the dash light dimmer switch may be turned to the opposite end, it turns off interior lights and brake lights, check it.

 

[pickupman6]

http://search.ebscohost.com/Login.as...uthtype=ip,uid
User ID: rrcc
Password: rebsco
u can find the wiring diagram here

 

[Topol_86]

After searching around online, I found the 96-99 Ford service manual. Found wiring diagrams as well as the workshop manuals inside. If anyone wants to download this, let me know and I can post a link to where it can be downloaded.

PopRichie77 Just one little thing the dash light dimmer switch may be turned to the opposite end, it turns off interior lights and brake lights, check it.

Already checked it, and my brake lights still function, so not it.

Budwich
First, these "measurement" are being done with the relay removed and you are "touching" the socket where the relay was plugged in, .... right???

Back to basics... next... you always measure to a known point, in this case a known ground.... find somewhere where there is lots of metal or ground strap near/around the dash area (there are ways to ensure you have a known ground but hopefully we can go pass that... my fingers are crossed). Put one lead there. Next touch the other lead on pin 1 of the connector where the relay was plugged in. Read the DC voltage... IF you have a door recently opened and its still open, THEN the reading should be ~12v. IF not, try again with your key to ON.... what's reading now? Further, with your key ON, open your glove box, is there a light on? The answer to these will quickly tell you where your problem lies.

Yes, tests were done with the relay out, and I was touching the inside of the connector where the relay plugs in. I also am familiar with what makes a good ground, and what doesn't, so that's not part of the problem.


I've got the troubleshooting guide open, and the fiancee just got back with the truck so i'm going to work my way through the guide. I'll let you know how I fair, and any problems questions I encounter I'll post. If I get it fixed, I'll post what my problem was for anyone else going through the same issue. Thanks for the help so far guys, much appreciated.

 

[Topol_86]

Update. Followed the troubleshooting guide, which led me to check the battery saver relay.

A19 CHECK THE VOLTAGE TO THE BATTERY SAVER RELAY — CIRCUIT 88 (BK/W)


Battery Saver Relay


Measure the voltage between battery saver relay connector pin 1, circuit 88 (BK/W), pin 5, circuit 88 (BK/W), and ground.


Think i just found my porblem. I'm missing a connection inside the receptacle! Inside where pin 1 sits, there's no metal. I'm about to partially take apart the dash to get better access to the relay box. it appears the box comes apart judging by the red plastic that appears to sit inside and hold the connections inside. Hope this is the solution! not many steps left in the troubleshooting guide lol. I'll Post back with my results.

 

[Topol_86]

Roadblock, brought on by some confusion. In my last post I said I was missing the receptacle pin 1. After turning the relay over and looking at the numbers by the pins on it, I'm being told 2 seperate things.

The service manual is telling me to test pins 1 and 5 to ground, looking for voltage greater than 10. Thats the photo shown in the troubleshooting guide. The relay tells me that the numbers are as follows: Top left- 1, top middle-4 and top right -2, middle pin is 5, and bottom is 3. Is it possible the photo from the service diagram is simply a generic photo? I noticed another picture showing to test a fuse and it was a 15a fuse in the picture, but the circuit only required a 10a.

And to clarify a mistake on my part from a previous post, it would be a contact inside pin 4. Doesn't look like there's anything pushed down inside it or anything, is there supposed to be something there?

 

[bobflood]

After searching around online, I found the 96-99 Ford service manual. Found wiring diagrams as well as the workshop manuals inside. If anyone wants to download this, let me know and I can post a link to where it can be downloaded.

Topal: Would love the link. And way to go on finding that problem with the relay. You get high marks for persistence.

 

[bobflood]

Roadblock, brought on by some confusion. In my last post I said I was missing the receptacle pin 1. After turning the relay over and looking at the numbers by the pins on it, I'm being told 2 seperate things. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/topol_86/relaypins.gif[/QUOTE]

Topol: I followed the link in the post above, minus the "Login..." stuff, to get the wiring diagram - fantastic site. According to that diagram, pins 1 and 5 should be hot all the time and are fed by Blk/Wht wires. Tan/Yel wire (pin 2) goes back to the GEM central timer module, which puts ground on that wire to activate the Battery Saver Relay. The relay closed the path between pin 5 (Blk/Wht) and pin 3 (Pnk wire) to light the interior lights. Should be able to use the wire colors to define which pin is which. Diagram also shows a fuse (#27, 10A) after the Battery Saver Relay and before all of the lights.

Good luck!!

 

[Topol_86]

Topal: Would love the link. And way to go on finding that problem with the relay. You get high marks for persistence.

I posted a new thread on where/how to get it. It's This thread

 

[Topol_86]

Topol: I followed the link in the post above, minus the "Login..." stuff, to get the wiring diagram - fantastic site. According to that diagram, pins 1 and 5 should be hot all the time and are fed by Blk/Wht wires. Tan/Yel wire (pin 2) goes back to the GEM central timer module, which puts ground on that wire to activate the Battery Saver Relay. The relay closed the path between pin 5 (Blk/Wht) and pin 3 (Pnk wire) to light the interior lights. Should be able to use the wire colors to define which pin is which. Diagram also shows a fuse (#27, 10A) after the Battery Saver Relay and before all of the lights.

Good luck!!

I tried following the link, was able to login but then as soon as i click the auto resources (middle button/ link) i was led to a 404 error page not found.
In either case, here's the diagram i'm going from.

At pin 1, i have 12.3~12.4v, and at pin 5 the same. The final part of the troubleshooting guide says to test the battery saver relay. Is it ok? IF YES
REPAIR circuit 401 (PK). CLEAR the DTCs. TEST the system for normal operation.
The 401 (pk) circuit looks like it goes from the back of the relay at pin 3 to the fuse panel. I'll run a continuity test with my multimeter from pin 3 of the battery saver relayto pin1 of fuse 27 to test it. Anyone know if you need the special NGS tester for the GEM? or will an OBD 2 tool read DTC's from it?

From my earlier post about the pin 4 having nothing, I don't think it should as when the relay is closed, it switches pins 3 and 5 to 3 and 4. Am I correct with this thought?

 

[OneLever]

The final part of the troubleshooting guide says to test the battery saver relay.

As you can see in Picture 4 of this thread the Battery saver relay has the same serial number on it as adjacent relays meaning they are likely identical. You can swap the Headlamp relay, which is used by the Autolamp sensor on the rear view mirror to activate the headlights, with the Battery saver relay to see if it is faulty.

I'll run a continuity test with my multimeter from pin 3 of the battery saver relayto pin1 of fuse 27 to test it.

This is a good next step. After that check for continuity from Interior fuse #27 (10A Mini) Pin 2 to Interior lamp relay Pin 1 and Pin 5. As to your earlier question: I would always go by the numbering on the relays themselves instead of what some diagram claims.

Anyone know if you need the special NGS tester for the GEM? or will an OBD 2 tool read DTC's from it?

Any OBDII reader should work with the 1997 vehicles, but there is no reason to use one here. None of your problems would be throwing a DTC. If the CEL is lit it is likely a different issue. Internal GEM failures would likely produce erratic behaviors but not throw a DTC.

From my earlier post about the pin 4 having nothing, I don't think it should

Correct. Battery saver relay Pin 4 and Interior lamp relay Pin 4 are the resting locations for the pole while the relays are not energized and in the normally open state.

 

[Topol_86]

Onelever
As you can see in Picture 4 of this thread the Battery saver relay has the same serial number on it as adjacent relays meaning they are likely identical. You can swap the Headlamp relay, which is used by the Autolamp sensor on the rear view mirror to activate the headlights, with the Battery saver relay to see if it is faulty.

I've already swapped a known good relay in, no change.

Any OBDII reader should work with the 1997 vehicles, but there is no reason to use one here. None of your problems would be throwing a DTC. If the CEL is lit it is likely a different issue. Internal GEM failures would likely produce erratic behaviors but not throw a DTC.

I only asked because in the service manual these are some of the DTC's the GEM outputs
B1314 C OD Battery Saver Relay Coil Circuit Open
B1315 C OD Battery Saver Relay Coil Circuit Short to Battery
B1316 C OD Battery Saver Relay Coil Circuit Short to Ground
But yes, I see what you're saying, I've ruled the BSR out so likely wouldn't get any help with troubleshooting.

This is a good next step. After that check for continuity from Interior fuse #27 (10A Mini) Pin 2 to Interior lamp relay Pin 1 and Pin 5.

Thanks, I hadn't thought that far ahead yet. Maybe wouldn't have thought to try that at all. Collaboration of many often leads to a better end result. I'll have to run those tests when the truck returns, as it's gone once again. I'll post my findings

 

[Topol_86]

Update. I put my meter to pin 3 of the BSR, and pin 1 of Fuse 27, No continuity. I'll retest it again to be sure, had to get the door shut as once again, it's started snowing! If its the case still, looks like i'll be taking some of the dash apart to replace that wire though. If the test does come back with a positive result i'll have to run some wire from the pins in the rear relay as my test leads aren't quite long enough to reach from the front of the vehicle to the rear to test from pin 2 of fuse 27 to relay box #4