Mechanic says it's impossible to get the engine out while it's seized

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

My 2003 Explorer Limited 4.6 L v8 seized while on the highway. I have come to believe that the culprit was a failed oil pump, and possibly head gasket or head.

The mechanic has not gone to any great lengths to attempt to repair the vehicle because he believes it's junk. I'm starting to come around to that idea too. It has 155k miles, so even with a repaired engine it'll still have all the problems a vehicle of this age and use should expect down the line... drivetrain, transfer case, differential, suspension etc...

Furthermore my mechanic said that so long as the engine is seized, it's basically locked in place and cannot be removed. He also said there's no way to rotate something that needs to be rotated, in order to allow the engine to be separated from the transmission, there are bolts on a revolving plate, and as long as the engine cannot rotate, those bolts are hidden. He went on to add that there's no way to remove the transmission and the engine from the vehicle together, and that because of this the engine and transmission are locked in the dead vehicle for life.

I cannot wrap my mind around this. Did ford really engineer this vehicle so that if the engine is seized, there's absolutely no way to remove it from the vehicle?

 

[TechGuru]

Should be able to pull out the whole assembly from the bottom as they are put in from the bottom together at the factory, the body is essentially lowered into the engine/transmission assembly. This mechanic may just not have the equipment to do that.

Might as well put a new transmission while you're at it anyway...

Even replacing all this it's still cheaper than buying a new vehicle (would cost me $50K to buy a NEW vehicle (Durango R/T) that has everything I like about my Exp and more). and buying a used vehicle you're just buying unknown problems.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Might as well put a new transmission while you're at it anyway...

That was my thought too. However I'm still looking at a vehicle with 155k miles on it. Who knows what else could go wrong.

What would you estimate the cost of putting in a new engine and transmission? I'd like to be able to trust this thing for another 20-30k at least, so if it's a lost cause, I have to consider that before getting into a lengthy repair process.

Do you have any experience with the 2003 4.6 Explorer/ Mountaineer? I really don't aside from this one. So I am struggling to decide between a total drive train job, or just cutting my losses and selling it for parts.

I was hoping to take this vehicle cross country, ~6,000 miles or more, so if it's still going to be iffy after $3500 in repairs, I'd rather not do it.

 

[Hugh Janus]

Rarely does "seized " mean that you can't turn the motor with a breaker bar.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Torque converter and flexplate are the only things that need to turn to seperate. You can take the torque converter out with the engine. Can't believe the tech is willing to throw jobs away.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Rarely does "seized " mean that you can't turn the motor with a breaker bar.

could you explain what you mean?

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Torque converter and flexplate are the only things that need to turn to seperate. You can take the torque converter out with the engine. Can't believe the tech is willing to throw jobs away.

yeah, flex plate I believe is what he said. If he cant get the motor to turn at all, he said he cant move the flexplate which has bolts that he needs to access. This guy has a shop with like 5 lifts, and im pretty sure he's set up to do whatever.

 

[boominXplorer]

I had an 02 4.6 Mountaineer lock up a passenger cam and drop a valve which kept the engine from turning. I had to take the cylinder head off to get the engine to spin. It can be done, just a little extra work and technically it will make it easier to pull (trans bolts are right there now)

 

[Number Twelve]

Rarely does "seized " mean that you can't turn the motor with a breaker bar.

You didn't meet the AC compressor in my Aerostar. A piston split in two and there was no way anything was going to move with a chunk of piston between the top of the partial piston and the valve plate.

Torque converter and flexplate are the only things that need to turn to separate. You can take the torque converter out with the engine. Can't believe the tech is willing to throw jobs away.

Un-bolt the torque converter housing and leave it on the engine when you pull the engine seems feasible. I made a huge sawhorse shaped structure and took my Aerostar off the engine and transmission, so that's possible, but you need some kind of huevos to do that in the back yard.

 

[RangerX]

I would interpret your mechanic's comment to mean that he really doesn't want to do the job, not that it can't be done. I would try other shops, at least to see what they say about it.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

as what others has said, it can be done but it's a lot of work. the mechanic was just implying to take the job elsewhere because he's not doing it.

normally the torque converter needs to be separated by accessing the bolts via a single access hole, some engines are seized to the point that no breaker bar can slightly move it. He'll end up destroying either the engine or transmission during the process.

 

[Number4]

You'll find a lot of shops only drop "new" motors in these days. The fact that he may have to tear down to a head to remove it, is probably enough for him to say no.

Time investment from the shop. He may be able to do 10 different jobs in the time it takes one mechanic to just get your engine out. That bay needs to make money.

 

[dtom29]

The engine only has to be moved forward about four inches to separate the torque converter from the transmission and then it can be lifted out. I agree with RangerX, he doesn't want the job. There is enought room to move the engine forward as long as the radiator and air condtioning condenser are removed.

 

[shucker1]

My bet is that he will offer you a rock bottom price for the truck since he is saying it's a junker.

He will then rebuild the entire thing and sell it at a nice profit.

However, I tend to look at the "Dark Side" of people.

Too much George Carlin I guess....

 

[turboranger91]

I guess your mechanic is independently wealthy, and doesn't need to do work. It's definitely not impossible... Sounds like he just doesn't want to do it.

 

[Number Twelve]

Too much George Carlin I guess....

I think that isn't possible.

 

[Josh P]

I'd rather give up a weekend and rent some tools to get the job done than have a car payment for the next 5-6 years. Search for a place that sells used engines and installs them. Here in phoenix I see ads on craigslist for $400 labor to swap engines when you buy one from them, warranty included.

 

[Tech By Trade]

as what others has said, it can be done but it's a lot of work. the mechanic was just implying to take the job elsewhere because he's not doing it.

normally the torque converter needs to be separated by accessing the bolts via a single access hole, some engines are seized to the point that no breaker bar can slightly move it. He'll end up destroying either the engine or transmission during the process.

You get at the bolts on the torque converter through the hole where you pull the starter. You only destroy the pump if you don't have the torque converter lined up properly when you put the engine back in. The only reason to separate them during disassembly is that they are a real pain to line up during assembly. You wont damage anything if you pull the engine with the torque converter apart as one and are careful.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

You get at the bolts on the torque converter through the hole where you pull the starter.

can you elaborate the process on how would you do that if you can't rotate the torque converted via the crankshaft ? (or whatever method)

 

[Tech By Trade]

can you elaborate the process on how would you do that if you can't rotate the torque converted via the crankshaft ? (or whatever method)

The torque converter slides into the pump. If you look at the back of the torque converter there are 2 notches, they need to slide exactly in the pump. (if i had a pic i could show you) Follow the exact procedure in the service manual. You will still need to pull the starter because the bolts go through the block and hold the bell housing. You just dont need to pull the bolts out of the flex plate. When you slide the engine forward, you will need to clear the bell housing with the torque converter, as it will add about 6 inches to the rear of the engine. it should slide straight forward. The engine can be pulled without removing the rad without the torque converter connected to the flex plate, but you will need to remove the rad to have enough room to clear the attached torque converter. Next i would take the torque converter off the flex plate, and make damn sure to slide it back into the transmission, making damn sure the notches line up with the pump, or it will destroy the pump on reassembly.