Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

no problem. it was even bugging me about the problems you were having with the headers, and its not even my truck! that and its a learning experience. i have learned to always to put the headers on before the motor goes in, and never while its in!
i figured joe's write up would help you. to bad he is never on here anymore. he is a funny guy (even got to meet him a few years ago). i wish i could remember what i did when i did my swap. i was able to use the 4L condenser, and i remember there were tabs that bolted to it, then the rad support so it didnt have to be clipped into the rad. i am even using the 5L rad from the donor truck i bought.

 

[CDW6212R]

no problem. it was even bugging me about the problems you were having with the headers, and its not even my truck! that and its a learning experience. i have learned to always to put the headers on before the motor goes in, and never while its in!
i figured joe's write up would help you. to bad he is never on here anymore. he is a funny guy (even got to meet him a few years ago). i wish i could remember what i did when i did my swap. i was able to use the 4L condenser, and i remember there were tabs that bolted to it, then the rad support so it didnt have to be clipped into the rad. i am even using the 5L rad from the donor truck i bought.

That's a big question I've had for a while. Is the V6 condenser better to use when swapping to the V8 and radiator? I'm going to swap a 302 into my V6 Explorer some day, and I like the mounting of that condenser better than the V8 unit.

Tim, I take it you have the nice V6 condenser bracket in your truck, so what other things hold it in place above that?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Tim, I take it you have the nice V6 condenser bracket in your truck, so what other things hold it in place above that?

just 2 small brackets. one on either side of the condenser if i remember correctly. i you have a v6 truck, take a peek at it. its the same or should be the same as mine.

 

[CDW6212R]

just 2 small brackets. one on either side of the condenser if i remember correctly. i you have a v6 truck, take a peek at it. its the same or should be the same as mine.

Great, I wondered if I could keep it to not have to open the AC/freon. I was happy back when I learned that they also use the same AC compressor.

 

[ahodges]

you would have to open the system anyway because the lines coming off of the a/c compressor are different.

 

[delexploder]

Im also using the sohc condenser and dual core Rad with the 5ltr in my sport, I used the v8 AC lines

 

[Dono]

Well boys, this will be the last update for a while.

The truck runs great, but something has taken its toll on seals. Im really thinking I ended up overheating the motor too badly, and now I have a pretty bad oil leak dripping on the cat. Gets pretty smelly.

So, being that I'm not as tenacious as 4pointslow, I only want to fix my 281,000 km motor once. How do you do this I kept pondering.....

and, Ford Strokers to the rescue with a 347 short block.

Hopefully their wait time isn't too bad. Blocks ordered with wiseco pistons, and the cam questionnaire has been filled out and returned.

I tightened up the oil pan as best I can, and it did slow the leak. I think I have at least 1 other leak somewhere. Too bad the motor has to come out, as it actually is running really well. Being my daily driver, I don't want a lot of down time, so building another motor properly is the only way to go for me.

This won't be a crazy build, and I think the heads are going to hold me back, but the turbo will still get me as close to, or over, block splitting territory if I'm not careful. A dart block does not make sense, as the rest of my drive train will surely explode at high hp levels (and I don't have that kind of cash).

I'll be going custom cam and topping off with gt40p heads. The heads are professionally ported with larger undercut stainless valves and beehive valve springs. I expect to be publicly whipped for using these heads on a stroker, but am really interested to see how they perform with a custom cam made to help the heads out as much as possible.

As long as I can keep close to stock height valve covers, I won't have to battle with a intake plenum spacer and longer egr tube for the torquemonster headers. Oh, and Im not sure in a turbo application how much of a restriction they will be with their 1.5" tubes, but we are going to find out.

I'm really hoping to end up with a very high, and flat torque curve down low, and let the turbo do the work higher in the rpm band.

Next update once Tim and I drive across the border to pick up my short block, I'm guessing it will be months from now. I'm sure glad my wife isn't on this forum.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

This won't be a crazy build,

suuuuuuuuuuuure. let the real horsepower wars begin

I'm sure glad my wife isn't on this forum.

now where is your phone number again? oh, wait! found it!

 

[Dono]

Yea, she knows I'm going to put in another motor, but this isn't exactly a pull from a pick n pull.
Having the heads already helps the cost quite a bit.

hp wars? Yea, I hope we both end up with as much horsepower as we dare on our stock blocks with nothing bad happening.

 

[ahodges]

OHHH Boy! Here we go with the 347 wars! Now... who can through the most boost at it?!?!?! :shifty_ey

 

[ahodges]

Oh and watch Jon still blow our doors off with a 4.0!

And yeah, all 3 of us need 3/4" or larger headers for the 347 to breath properly.

 

[Dono]

I don't think anyone here is competing with Jon, we know better.
He has pulled more power out of his stock motor than anyone has any right to do.

I've never heard of a stock bottom end, stock head, and stock cammed 4.0 sohc pulling the kind of power he has. Not anywhere, and this motor is in far more vehicles that I can imagine.

With a Turbo'd motor I should really have forged pistons and rods. To do this, The cost runs right up to about the same as a stroked bottom end with the same forged components. My trucks all but rust free, so it doesn't make sense to me to throw it away.

The bigger header tubes would be nice, but in my case, the turbo is the exhaust restriction anyway. So out of boost, the headers are probably fine, and under boost the turbo is the thing creating the exhaust back pressure. Id expect if my intake boost is at 5 lbs, I have at least 7 lbs back-pressure in my exhaust.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i was going to get headers made at some point this year, but that is shot to hell in more ways then one now.

 

[CDW6212R]

Cool Don, that sounds like a fun and fast truck very soon.

If you haven't already discussed the compression a lot with Woody, try to work out the highest level you can with your heads and the cam. The hp limit of the block will let you run more compression and less boost, and still be able to reach the block limit. More compression gets you more bottom end, and getting boost quick isn't as big of a deal.

I have 9.65:1 in my 347, which I had planned to add mild boost to, with a stock block. So mine was intended to do what you are shooting for, flat hp curve within the block's limit.

The turbo will reduce the issue of the heads being smaller, and higher compression, it'll fly I'm sure.

 

[Dono]

Thanks Don, Here is where I am with compression

bore: 4.03
stroke: 3.4
Cylinder head volume: 58cc gt40p
Piston volume: 14cc Wiesco's
Deck Clearance: 0
Head gasket compressed: .047 (9333PT1)
0 deck

This gives me 9.69:1

Now, I have not cc'd the combustion chambers, so I might have a bit more volume in there than I think. If I have 59cc chambers, I'm down to 9.59:1.

The right thing for me to do would be to cc all the chambers. Maybe I could get a small chunk of plexiglass and go thru the procedure while I'm waiting on my block.

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks Don, Here is where I am with compression

bore: 4.03
stroke: 3.4
Cylinder head volume: 58cc gt40p
Piston volume: 14cc Wiesco's
Deck Clearance: 0
Head gasket compressed: .047 (9333PT1)
0 deck

This gives me 9.69:1

Now, I have not cc'd the combustion chambers, so I might have a bit more volume in there than I think. If I have 59cc chambers, I'm down to 9.59:1.

The right thing for me to do would be to cc all the chambers. Maybe I could get a small chunk of plexiglass and go thru the procedure while I'm waiting on my block.

Those compression figures are very important for the cam designer to know what compression he's making it for. I forgot that you had the heads and it isn't all in Woody's hands. For mine I had the cam designed for the compression he was sure would come with commonly used pistons etc. So Woody built it with those specified for the cam.

So I'd do what you just planned, check the chambers and get the cc number, and then contact Woody with that. He or you both can then work with the cam guy and select the best pistons to make the compression what is best. Then the cam guy also will use the compression figure to help make the cam.

 

[Dono]

It kinda worked a bit different than that. I filled out the cam questionnaire and sent it in.
I cc'd the intake volume of the heads. Interestingly enough, they were all dead on at 140cc's each. The information on the net says they are 145cc. I know for certain that there was no material added to the intake runners of the heads, and a little bit was removed.

I wouldn't think 1cc in the combustion chamber will make much difference to the cam designers cam, but I should definitely make all the heads the same cc. If I need to, I could have a hare shaved off the heads to gain the slight difference back.

The cam designer knows me engine specs, including valve sizes ,exhaust system, and intake to be used. I spelled out very clearly that this was for a rear mount turbo system with size of turbo. Also, I made clear that I fully expected to see a resulting LSA of at least 115 on the cam due to the rear mounting of the turbo. Idle quality...I left it up to the design as I'd be happy with a super smooth stock style idle, or a bit of a lope to the idle.

I'll be interested in the cam designers specs. There are some challenges. The pedestal mount rockers and the desire to keep from having to use an intake spacer to create room for taller valve covers might be an issue. I really don't want to have to build a longer egr tube. Right now, my motor has FMS 1.6 rollers in it with factory valve covers, so we will see what happens as lift goes up.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yeah, the pedestal rockers might be the toughest challenge for the cam. They take advantage of today's lighter valve springs and fast changing lobes, to gain airflow versus older technology. I hated to have to buy a whole new valve spring package for my Flo-tek heads, but the cam designer really wanted to them instead of the common bigger springs. I figured it was smart to do now, the price compared to the total engine cost etc. I haven't even though about the rockers to use yet, I have some old pedestal Crane things, but who knows how good they may be compared to new stuff.

Just go slow with the Winter season here, and work through the details. Plan for some suspension work, brakes etc, and maybe more fuel(pump/lines/filter). Have fun with it of course.

 

[4pointslow]

347

This is great news! Now we get to see what a supercharged and Turbo charged 347 will do in these explorers!

If I ever get my 4 doors transmission to work right I would be able to get back on my Ex. Man that didn't come out right.

Hey Dono, if you do end up needing a spacer plate there are some nice Nitrous plates on Summit!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Hey Dono, if you do end up needing a spacer plate there are some nice Nitrous plates on Summit!

no, no! they um....dont make nitrous plates any more for 5L.....never did, never will either.....:shifty_ey