Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[Dono]

Haha.....Tim, nitrous would really cool your oncoming air charge also.
Nitrous is more than just a laughing gas, turbo and superchargers love it also. Maybe you could add another couple of jets to complement the water/meth injection.

I have to say, when I step on the gas on the highway, it makes me giggle. I still am amazed how hard it pulls.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

nitrous bad, go boom!

 

[ahodges]

nitrous bad, go boom!

Zoom, then Boom!!

 

[4pointslow]

Vroom, then zoom, then boom!
LOL

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Vroom, then zoom, then boom!
LOL

why do you think my screen name is my screen name. when i had my capri on the road, i broke waaaaaaaay to may parts because of my eregular sized right foot

 

[4pointslow]

Hell yeah!

 

[Dono]

Just a small update to let everyone know this isn't dead, just 'resting'.

A few small things I have learned:
1. make sure all relays under hood that you use are the waterproof style. I had my scavenge pump stay on all the time, then quit all together.
2. Using the lighted led boost gauge powered after the scavenge pump relay is a beautiful thing. It lets me know if there is a fuse, or relay issue immediately.
3. Rear mount turbo created a pcv valve issue. I tried all kinds of things, but due to winter I had to remove the catch can and route 2 breather hoses (1 breather at pcv valve location, and the other valve cover breather) just underneath the truck. The winter issue was that condensation kept freezing up the lines. There is really no where to pull vacuum from while under boost. The catch can breather system may very well have been the source of my oil leaks now due to blowing out a seal. I'll know when the old motor comes out.
4. The electric fan controller temp sensor that is pushed in between the fins of a radiator is at risk of falling out, even though it is pressed in firmly. Some extra method of securing this should be used (Maybe a small dab of silicone?).
5. No huge surprise here, but the air filter and pre-filter sure filled up with extremely fine road dust over the winter. There is no question that short service intervals are required. This is not a big deal to me, and was expected.
6. Ford Strokers had built them selves an amazing business thru quality and customer service. They are extremely busy. My shortblock is still a few weeks away.

I have not had the time or desire to mount my intercooler radiator/pump yet. Something about the smell of oil as it hits the catalytic converters when I'm stopped at a light has kind of taken away my desire to do anything extra. The underside of my truck has a wonderful coating of oil that I'll spin positively as rust prevention.

Other than these small things the truck runs great. The turbo is pretty loud and I'm sure as it spools lightly around town other drivers are looking around wondering what that high pitched noise is.

Other than the higher maintenance intervals required for the air filter (And a few things noted above that I should have done right the first time) this turbo is a zero maintenance mod. I just need to find more opportunity to run my truck past 3500 rpm at full throttle to really enjoy the full pull of 10lbs boost. Im sure the larger ci of a 347 (And larger cam) will allow the turbo to spool up faster

 

[4pointslow]

turbo

Did you have to replace the scavenge pump?
What relays are you using now?

Could there be a place to mount the catch can where it would stay warmer? Or could you wrap a coolant line around it, like maybe a heater hose? (ford wrapped a coolant line around a few PCV valves to keep them from freezing.
Or maybe an electric heater wrapped around the catch can, Ford also put an electric heater in some PCV valves.

The boost gauge powered off the relay was a great idea!

 

[Dono]

I just ebay'd a couple of water proof relays from China. Im still waiting on them.
Scavange pump is fine.

The pcv system has me stumped. The condensation is so bad on a cold start here that all venting hoses need to be angled(like plumbing) to make sure there can be no water pockets. While it was really cold, even with a good angle on the lines, they were freezing up and clogging on me. Then the pcv valve would pop out of its grommet.

I can easily add the catch can for summer, but I think every winter I'll go back to direct, almost vertical venting under the truck. It seemed to work, so I will stick with it.

What I'd like to do is source 1 way valves that would open/close at something like 1/2 lb to let me retain normal pcv operation, then under boost have valves close/open to vent to atmosphere. I havn't figured this out. Makes my head hurt.

 

[Dono]

I think I could get pcv working by adding 2 check valves. The valve cover breather would have to have 2 check valves also, and be plumbed in to the intake side after the maf. Then under boost, id vent engine gases to atmosphere. Out of boost driving, the pcv system would work the same as factory.

I'm going to order up some vacuum check valves off ebay and take a run at this.

 

[CDW6212R]

I think I could get pcv working by adding 2 check valves. The valve cover breather would have to have 2 check valves also, and be plumbed in to the intake side after the maf. Then under boost, id vent engine gases to atmosphere. Out of boost driving, the pcv system would work the same as factory.

I'm going to order up some vacuum check valves off ebay and take a run at this.

That sounds like a good method for the PCV system for boost. A vacuum pump can provide the needed PCV power, plus applied to the crankcase it makes power. Look into those, there are some high dollar aftermarket units, and some stock air pumps that people have used on their 90's Fords. The stock air pumps don't last near as long though, and can't be rebuilt.

I'm going to look into the possibility of mounting a vacuum pump where the low idler pulley is, if there's room there and the aluminum bracket can be modified for it.

For the temperature probe in the radiator, use a little RTV, it will hold it there.

 

[Dono]

If I can get my mitt's on some of these:
https://www.qosina.com/catalog/part.asp?partno=11083

I think I'd have a perfectly workable solution. The issue I see with mcmastercarr is that their one way valves are not high flow.

The one way at the pcv valve is easy, its setting something up for the breather line from the valve cover that requires some ingenuity. I'm sure with pcv working I wouldn't have the moisture issue as when not under boost, the pcv would behave perfectly as stock. No moisture in a breather line to freeze up.

Im just not sure that this company will sell me any.

 

[Dono]

possible 3 valve system for the valve cover breather

Hows my logic on this guys?
I think with 3 valves, this could work. I know that under boost, there will be metered air venting out, but I can't see any other way.
Also, I'm allowing the crankcase to boost to 1psi. This shouldn't be an issue, as 1 psi better not be enough to blow seals.
If I can get a hold of high flow valves set to the approximate ratings I am showing, I should be good to go.

Please find the flaws in my logic. I might be missing something very simple that says this can't work.

edit:
I just bought these: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/111319601957?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
High flow 3/8" check valves with Viton seals for HHO. They look like they will survive the heat and fuel/oil vapor.
I'll just have to find a high flow check valve with 1 psi crack pressure.

 

[Dono]

I've been putting more thought in to this. There's no need for one way valve #1 . I won't be using one there. Just 2 valves will be used on that side of the pcv system.

Now, the actual pcv valve in the lower intake never actually closes completely (I just checked a new one). This means, when I add the pcv system back in (I currently just have a breather on the pcv valve with it hollowed out), I'll need to add a check valve that opens at very low pressure, but closes the instant air flow starts reversing in to the crank case.

I have been reading lots of good threads on pcv systems, and have not seen anyone use a couple of check valves on the side of the valve cover to intake. I'm not sure why. I guess I'll be finding out if there is a specific reason.

Still no word on my short block.

 

[Dono]

Ok, I'm starting to understand the pcv system and why sts uses a hobbs switch and a normally open solenoid valve. Its clear to me now that the air line coming from the air filter (Metered air) to the valve cover is designed to make sure you don't end up with too much negative pressure in the crank case using the rest of the pcv system.

So, under boost. The path from the air filter to the valve cover needs to close. A simple one way valve won't do this since we need flow to the valve cover until boost starts. Then the pcv valve closes and the path to the air filter needs to close. A simple one way valve in-between the valve cover and the solenoid valve will vent crank case pressure under boost (If I wanted to get fancy later, I could use a crank case scavenge pump that turned on under boost).

What scares me is that sts always had a ton of trouble with their one way solenoid system. I think with the added air filter and 1 psi hobbs switch I can make this work without blowing seals out. I think I just might take a run at this. Besides, the hobbs switch will also turn on my intercooler pump when I get around to installing the radiator and pump.

Oh, did I mention STS no longer exists? check their facebook page.

oh, and here is the solenoid:
http://www.amazon.com/12v-Normally-...UTF8&qid=1431400594&sr=8-1&keywords=2W04008KN
2000StreetRod already posted the hobbs switch and connector in one of his threads:
http://www.racetronix.biz/Itemdesc.asp?ic=HPS-2&eq=&Tp=
http://www.racetronix.biz/Itemdesc.asp?ic=RCS-007&eq=&Tp=

 

[Dono]

attempt #2 of working pcv closed system

Here we go again, using the same style of system that STS uses. I'm not sure if they used the vent to filter under boost though. I'm guessing they didn't as the emissions police probably wouldn't be to happy about it.
This should also solve my winter moisture issue ((Freezing water/condensation clogging vent tubes as all that moisture (frost) comes out of the crank case) on warm up, as the pcv system will operate exactly as it did from the factory under normal driving conditions.

I ordered up the 2 way normally open solenoid and hobbs switch today. I'll complete this install as the new motor goes in.

 

[4pointslow]

PCV on Rear Mount Turbo set up

That design is looking pretty good, I am sure you will get it working like it should. I never really thought about it so much, before reading your thread.
I guess the PCV system is the Achilles heel of the rear mount turbo systems.
Still waiting on the short block?

 

[Dono]

No word on the short block.

And, yes, rear mount turbo has issues playing nice with the pcv system properly. It would be easier to make it all work if the maf was pre-turbo. I complicated my issue inserting my maf after the turbo.

I'll email fordstrokers next week and see where I'm at in the queue. I'm betting they are buried right now. Clash post on their face book was a thank you for all the business about 3 weeks ago. I can hang on as long as I get a quality product. I'm a bit concerned when a company experiences such exponential growth. Usually quality suffers. Being that they were built on quality, I really hope that they are the exception .

 

[vroomzoomboom]

and the crappy thing is was i called them today, and just as woody hung up, thats when i remembered to ask him where they were with your motor to.....crap.

 

[Dono]

Tim, I'm just happy they are still there working hard. That's a great update.