Engine misfire

[ExPlat]

The rust on the injector makes little sense. Rust takes time and for it to be even surface rust I would think it would be more then a few days exposure, however diluted with gasolene to be rusted. Besides the air moving would make it difficult for the water to just sit there and rust way. Getting it fixed is a blessing and they can blame anything they want. My first thought was it would be cam or crank sensor had come loose.

Well, it's not over yet. As you say, they are operating on theories so there's still a chance some other issue will emerge when they get all these repair parts installed and do another diagnostic test. I'm just hoping for a permanent fix, my 2017 Fusion Energi loaner is nice but am missing my Explorer.

 

[peterk9]

New engine?

 

[ExPlat]

New engine?

Wouldn't that be something...

 

[ExPlat]

Picked up the car today, runs good. The Work Order remarks about excessive rust between the injectors and fuel rails. Ford Eng had them drop the tank and perform an E-85 & Water test, results were negative. Because the test was negative Ford Eng allowed the work to continue under warranty. That fuel test was the deciding point about if the repair was warranty or not, a big deal. After that Ford Eng told the Dealer to replace the high pressure fuel components, including the injectors, fuels rails and HP fuel pump.

The WO says the HP fuel parts were rusted internally, I wonder why? That would have taken a long time to happen, or maybe the gas tank was corrupted when it was installed - one can only guess.

See the two page WO below, I cropped out the personal data:


Edit 09/15/2019: The old Work Order photos were not showing so I replaced them today.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I am still in shock that they specifically stated that all parts were rusted and they replaced them under warranty. Even if the fuel came back clean, this was purely a water intrusion issue.

With the 6.7, there is a specific procedure that Ford has to do when fuel system failure happens. They take pictures and have to submit. ANY and I mean ANY signs of rust, immediate denial.

Count your blessings you didn't get stuck with this repair bill. There are many owners on the diesel forums that have had to cough up $8,000+ for a fuel system replacement due to signs of rust.

 

[Sgt1411]

I gotta call my Engineering contacts and ask about this one because I don't get it.

The injector is simply the hardware nozzle that creates the high pressure fuel spray.

Water, if any, would literally be just drops, rust takes time to form so in that hot, high pressure environment I just don't understand it.

Water in the fuel running down the fuel lines through the injector and pushed out into a fine mist to cause the combustion would evaporate instantly and be blown out the exhaust valve.....no?

 

[blwnsmoke]

Things can rust in a matter of hours..

ExPlat - Were you running E85 or always running straight gasoline (10% ethanol)??

 

[Summers22]

I am amazed that the injectors are subject to rust. With E85 an accepted fuel, I would figure injectors and all fuel system parts are stainless steel.

 

[ExPlat]

Things can rust in a matter of hours. ExPlat - Were you running E85 or always running straight gasoline (10% ethanol)??

I bought this Explorer last September with 6,000 miles on it and used 87 octane regular gas for a while. However, it just didn't feel as fast as I thought it should and had a hesitation I didn't like so for about the last 5 months I've filled it with 91 octane straight gas, almost always top tier major brands. It did run better with much less hesitation until this happened. As far as E85 goes, nope, didn't use it and I don't even know of any stations with E85 around this area, plus, the car's tank test was negative for E85/water. My mechanical expertise ended with carburetors years ago so I understand the basics but not very much about these complicated ECB's.

It is a curious situation for sure and it will be interesting if you guys come up with any insight about this. I wish there were more details but the SA wasn't working today when we picked up the car. I plan on calling him next week with a few other questions though.

 

[champco]

What gets me is these parts SHOULD all be stainless steel. I am so confused

 

[champco]

I gotta call my Engineering contacts and ask about this one because I don't get it.

The injector is simply the hardware nozzle that creates the high pressure fuel spray.

Water, if any, would literally be just drops, rust takes time to form so in that hot, high pressure environment I just don't understand it.

Water in the fuel running down the fuel lines through the injector and pushed out into a fine mist to cause the combustion would evaporate instantly and be blown out the exhaust valve.....no?

We need that guys insight from the oil change thread.

 

[ExPlat]

I talked to the SA again today about this repair.
#1. Q: Did the fuel tank test determine the warranty status? A: If there had been E85 or water in the tank test Ford Eng would have denied the warranty claim, I would have had to open a case and go thru all that. (Edit: This is not exactly what the SA said last week, now it was an absolute statement.)
#2. Q: How did rust occur on the external fuel rails and injectors? A: It could have occurred when the engine was waiting for install in the vehicle, or any other scenario. Basically it is a mystery.
#3. Q: How did rust get into the injectors and rail? A: Unknown, some guesses; bad gas a few tanks ago; car, tank or engine sat in bad weather before gas tank was filled in Chicago, etc. With almost 11,000 miles on the car without problems the best they can do it replace the parts that they did and send me on my way.
#4. What can I do to prevent this from happening again? A: Unknown, just buy top tier gas and hope for the best.

The car is running better on each outing, the battery was disconnected for over a week and the computer is getting used to my driving style. I'll be very careful where I buy gas from now on. I thanked the SA and the Tech that did the repair and if Ford sends me a Survey the Dealer will get a good report. I hope this is all behind us now.

 

[Fergie20]

2019 Ford Explorer XLT Misfire

New to the forums and a brand new Ford buyer here. I just recently purchased a 2019 Ford Explorer XLT and began having misfire issues at the 12,000 mile mark. I've taken the vehicle back to the dealership where I purchased it and they have replaced wires and coils and now I am on my fourth appointment so they can replace the injectors. It appears that this is the 5th and 6th cylinder and I have now been told that I do qualify for the lemon law. I hate to go through the issue of the lemon law as I like my Explorer however I can't continue to go to the dealership for repairs when it has low miles. My question is what if this vehicle has the same issues after the warranty is up? I have been driving with this problem now for at least two months, will this damage the vehicle?

On top of all this, my Sirius Satelite radio won't work...…..the radio says "acquiring satellite signal" all the time!

Frustrated with the car and now the service!​

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum Fergie.
I've moved your thread to this existing one. Did they tell you about any trouble codes that they retrieved? If it is continually misfiring, I can only guess that it isn't doing the engine any good. Not sure if it's harmful.
As for the Sirius issue, please see and post in the following thread; Explorer SiriusXM Stuck "Acquiring Signal" (Intermittent) 2018 Models

Peter

 

[Fergie20]

Welcome to the Forum Fergie.
I've moved your thread to this existing one. Did they tell you about any trouble codes that they retrieved? If it is continually misfiring, I can only guess that it isn't doing the engine any good. Not sure if it's harmful.
As for the Sirius issue, please see and post in the following thread; Explorer SiriusXM Stuck "Acquiring Signal" (Intermittent) 2018 Models

Peter

Thanks Peter. The issue is still not fixed as the service at the dealership I purchased it at is HORRIBLE. I am now taking the vehicle to them on Tuesday and if it's not fixed, I think I may need to discuss the lemon law with them. Again, I don't really want to do this but I don't want a vehicle that I have to continue to take in for repairs especially when it is less than 5 months old.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Go lemon law and get into a 2020.

 

[ExPlat]

Go lemon law and get into a 2020.

I definitely agree with this ^^^^^^

 

[Fergie20]

I definitely agree with this ^^^^^^

Well, I am now on day 10 and still not fixed. Talked to my service tech and they said they have replaced the plugs/wires/coils/injectors and still get a misfire on #5 and 6. He told me the techs are literally scratching their heads and have been talking to Ford regarding their next move. Can’t believe this car is less than six months old and the problem began at 14,000 miles.

 

[Adrian Gitch]

Have they checked the wiring really good that connects to the #5 and #6 coils?

 

[KayGee]

Go lemon law and get into a 2020.

Just make sure it isn't one of the 12k+ that have passed through FRAP...