What is copper in the 4405?

[KPT]

So I am intending to use this 4405 case and the internals from my 4405 as mine has the shift rail bore issue. Just wondering what these shavings are?

Clutch? It seemed to be concentrated around the input shaft area.

Safe to assume I will need to replace all the bearings if I use this case?

 

[Glacier991]

Gosh... I'm not sure what would produce that. This one will be curious to find out the answer to. I'd defintely replace all the bearings.

 

[KPT]

My guess is that mud/water got into the crap ass stock breather and clogged the filter. This must have starved the pump and caused the clutch to overheat and grenade. I need to find someone with an impact driver to get the rear output yoke bolt off for further clutch analysis. Put my 18" breaker bar on it, jumped up and down on it and it didn't budge. Guessing the local ford dealer would charge something like $100 hour shop time to do it, and there aren't many competent private shops out here in the mountains.

 

[Hokie]

Clutch? It seemed to be concentrated around the input shaft area.

Safe to assume I will need to replace all the bearings if I use this case?

Long answer

It'll be a bearing/bushing. If its near the input shaft then I would say its an input shaft carrier/support bearing.

I'm assuming these cases are splash lubricated?

If its the input shaft then the donor probably had a bad driveshaft or something that caused some axial loading on shaft causing it to excessively wear. Or excessive amounts of grit/debris got into the input shaft bearing.

Overheating can also cause bearing coking which can lead to a spun bearing and lovely shavings like you're seeing.

Short answer
Change EVERY bearing/bushing and closely inspect every wear surface and the case that supports it. There may be hairline cracks if there was too much heat or distortion.

 

[Glacier991]

The only bronze bushing is in the planetary gear... which is visible in his photo, intact. That would have been my guess without a photo. The bearings are all ball bearings in steel (best my uneducated eye knows). I am really interested to see what the end discovery is. I love a good mystery.

ps. That screen filter on the pump pickup is about par for the course.

 

[KPT]

Case is not splash lubricated (mostly).

16 is the ATF pump. 19 is the clutch.

This case is from dman72649- "The catch is, its broken, it works in 2wd, but i believe the c;utch that engages the front to be shot, a few months ago i got a terrable grinding noise, then drained the fluid, and it was full of metal shavings. I refilled it, and have drove it in 2wd for a few months until I had time to swap in my 1354m."

Also the shaving look like copper not bronze to me so I am almost positive it is the clutch.

I"m thinking the shift rail bores are mainly in the rear of the case, so if I can get the damn 27 nut off this case and my case I should just be able to swap this rear case onto my front case and its internals.

 

[IZwack]

Also the shaving look like copper not bronze to me so I am almost positive it is the clutch

The clutches are not copper but mostly a steel backing with the friction material adhered to the surface.

But one sure way to tell is to look at the clutch discs and see how they are -- scoured/grooved or not.

 

[Glacier991]

It just hit me..... the elecromagnet windings!!!!!!!! It grenaded and blew up the electromagnet somehow? [Not sure how that would occur mechanically]

 

[IZwack]

It just hit me..... the elecromagnet windings!!!!!!!! It grenaded and blew up the electromagnet somehow? [Not sure how that would occur mechanically]

That would confirm the no 4wd issue .

 

[KPT]

Just thought I'd post an update. The copper was indeed the electromagnet. I'm guessing these parts failed first, I have no idea how the tcase failed that catastrophically.

For those that don't know this case, the parts on the right are good (from a different tcase). The two pieces on the bottom (middle and left) should be one piece.

Yes, one of the balls the clutch engages was sheared in half.

 

[Glacier991]

Wow. Thanks for the update. Got any pics of what was left of the electromagnet ?

Score one for Glacier.

 

[KPT]

No I didn't think to take any pics of the electromagnet and threw it out awhile ago. There were no windings left though, it was just the empty "U" housing of the magnet.

I just took the clutch pack apart on this tcase, the friction material was everywhere but on the discs. I think IZwack said that means water got in the case. I'm sure that had something to do with the failure.

Whats funny is the pump from this case looks fine, looks reusable even. The one out of the case that came off my truck is absolutely grenaded. Case off my truck had the rear output shaft bearing wallowed out as well as the shift rail bore in the rear half of the case. Front rail bore was fine but both pads were gone off the shift rail and the hi/low collar was grinding on decel.
I don't have to point out which is which:

That pump had to be beat off the main output shaft with a hammer.

of course I knicked the splines at the top with the hammer, so that shaft is now trash even if the pump residue could be cleaned off. I'm wondering if the failed pump caused the rear output bearing to fail, there is a hole I think right where the bearing goes for fluid from pump.


Now I'm worried about the planetary. It feels like it spins fine but if you look at that shaft most of the fluid from the pump goes to the planetary.

 

[Glacier991]

Wow... that is one totally grenaded transfer case.

Can I offer some advice? Buy a core and rebuild it. throw everything away in that one.

What year TC do you need?

 

[gijoecam]

OY!! That's one heckuva grenaded case! I think that beats IZWack's ball-ramp failure!!

One glance a the shavings, and they had to be copper. The bronze bushings don't have anywhere near enough material to make that much of a mess, and the shavings were all the same size (or very similar). I was gonna guess the clutch coil right off the bat.

What a MESS!!

-Joe

 

[IZwack]

Ahah thats amazing

I think that beats IZWack's ball-ramp failure!!

By far! Mine was a single part failure.

 

[KPT]

Buy a core and rebuild it. throw everything away in that one.

I'm going to throw everything away in this one (the one with the failed electromagnet, ball ramp, ball, clutches, and the cam and coil assembly) except for the rear case half and rear output shaft. This case was free from a forum member, he said he drove it for a few months with 2WD only after it made a grinding noise for 30 seconds or so, that might be why it is so grenaded.

I'm rebuilding the case that came off my truck (the one that pump failure lead to rear bearing and rear shift rail bore failure).

 

[Glacier991]

I recommend you get the upgraded case halves from Omega.... especially in light of your problems...and the shift fork.

 

[KPT]

I was planning on getting the updated shift fork. The added length looks like it would help prevent the shift rail bore issue.

The shift rail bores feel fine for now, the difference in the rear case half from my truck and the other one is amazing.

I'm going to hold on to the two case halves. If I get bored I'll get the calipers out and take some measurements. It would be simple to write a program and stick the halves in a CNC mill if I figured out where the actual middle of the shift rail bore holes were. That one program (two actually, one for each half) would work for all 4405's and I could machine any forum member's halves on the cheap.....