alignment help

[jd4242]

what the smallest alignment bushing they make?i have adjustable ones but from what i can tell they max out at +/- 1.75.they are specialty products #24180,they are advertised as +/- 2.25.i see +/- 3.50 ones on summit that are not adjustable.it appears non adjustable ones max out at a higher numbers than adjustable ones.is +/-3.50 the max?

the ones i have
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-24180/overview/year/1992/make/ford/model/explorer

+/-3.50
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-23194/overview/year/1992/make/ford/model/explorer

 

[jd4242]

tons of searching i may have found my own answer.the difference in specs if for 2wd verses 4wd.the bushings im using say 2.25 but thats 2wd,4wd they max out at +/-1.75.so the +/-3.50 in 4wd would be +/-2.75.is this info still true as its from 2009?is 3.50 the max still?

There is an old thread about those bushings on here. IIRC.. the max for the 4x4 was 2.75, which was the same bushing used on a 2wd that would actually give 3 degrees on the 2wd..

~Mark

EDIT: I found the list of possible bushing sizes.. You can see that you get more adjustment from 2wd vrs 4wd, using the same part from Specialy Products Company

Series 2WD Adjust. 4WD Adjust
Part # Total Change Total Change
23181 .25 degree (1/4 degree) .20 degree
23182 .50 degree (1/2 degree) .40 degree
23183 .75 degree (3/4 degree) .60 degree
23184 1.00 degree (1 degree) .75 degree
23185 1.25 degree (1-1/4 degree) .90 degree
23186 1.50 degree (1-1/2 degree) 1.10 degree
23187 1.75 degree (1-3/4 degree) 1.25 degree
23188 2.00 degree (2 degree) 1.40 degree
23189 2.25 degree (2-1/4 degree) 1.60 degree
23190 2.50 degree (2-1/2 degree) 1.80 degree
23191 2.75 degree (2-3/4 degree) 2.00 degree
23192 3.00 degree (3 degree) 2.25 degree
23193 3.25 degree (3-1/4 degree) 2.50 degree
23194 3.50 degree (3-1/2 degree) 2.75 degree
23199 0.00 degree (0 degree)

 

[wood1]

Hey buddy, you know more about this than I do but there are a few links in my thread about alignment. Not sure if there is anything that can help you or not.

Any vids with you roasting the skins yet?

 

[Tbars4]

..That info from Maniak is right on the mark and "0" is the smallest.. and IIRC that is what is found on stock vehicles..:scratch:

..That info from Maniak in itself is worth a bookmark..

 

[Maniak]

I keep losing that info.. Good thing SPC lists it on their site.

Keep in mind, if you get a adjuster that is slightly too big you can use the extra adjustment as caster adjustment. There is even a chart on SPC's site showing how much camber/caster adjustment you can get when you split the adjustment between the two.

That is what I did on our X. I got adjusters that were bigger than I needed and used the left over to take out some caster (I had way too much caster to begin with).

I use the SPC 91000 alignment tool to read/set my Camber. I haven't used it to set my caster.

~Mark

 

[jd4242]

I keep losing that info.. Good thing SPC lists it on their site.

Keep in mind, if you get a adjuster that is slightly too big you can use the extra adjustment as caster adjustment. There is even a chart on SPC's site showing how much camber/caster adjustment you can get when you split the adjustment between the two.

That is what I did on our X. I got adjusters that were bigger than I needed and used the left over to take out some caster (I had way too much caster to begin with).

I use the SPC 91000 alignment tool to read/set my Camber. I haven't used it to set my caster.

~Mark

I have that chart and the adjustable ones.the problem is they only go to +/-1.75 i need more than that.i think im going to order the ones that go to +/-3.50(+/-2.75-4x4)even with those it might not be enough .I've added f-150 seats to my 5.5 coils.i have 5.5 drop brackets tho.

 

[Maniak]

I have that chart and the adjustable ones.the problem is they only go to +/-1.75 i need more than that.i think im going to order the ones that go to +/-3.50(+/-2.75-4x4)even with those it might not be enough .I've added f-150 seats to my 5.5 coils.i have 5.5 drop brackets tho.

Thats how I remember it.. The "adjustable" camber bushings don't go very far. BUT, They allow you to adjust the Camber without screwing up the caster.

If you get the 2.75 degree ones and you only need 2.5 (just as an example) you would have to use that last .25 degree to adjust the caster as it has to go somewhere.

If you expect to do alignments a few times I'd grab the 91000 gauge and measure how much more you need and you can then figure out how much total adjustment you need by adding what you have to what you need together.

~Mark

 

[jd4242]

Yea wish they made adjustable ones that go to 2.75

 

[jd4242]

With just the 5.5 lift and drop brackets i needed 1.75*.I've added another 1.5" to it and its REALLY BAD!doubt 2.75* will even be enough,i hope so!I've only had one alignment in that truck,I've been doing it in my garage for as long as i can remember.i can get it way closer than most shops around here can.ill post some pics,I've got my street tires on so it looks REAL funny!

 

[4x4junkie]

Sounds to me like those spacers are too big.
If your beam pivot bolts are much over 2" higher than the center of your wheel hubs, then you'll need to bring it back down a little.

 

[Maniak]

Sounds to me like those spacers are too big.
If your beam pivot bolts are much over 2" higher than the center of your wheel hubs, then you'll need to bring it back down a little.

Can always use cut/turned beams to allow it to align.


~Mark

 

[jd4242]

Can always use cut/turned beams to allow it to align.


~Mark

exactly what I was thinking.ill know after sat.got the bushings from summit today and will be putting them in sat

 

[jd4242]

well i couldnt wait so went out and threw the driver side bushing in.pretty big difference but not enough.new bushings are 2.75* and old was 1.75*.i would say it need 3.75*it needs an alignment and the other side done but can still tell its not enough.ill do the other side Friday night and align it and post some pics.im pretty sure im going to have to pull them out and cut a 1/2'' off the bottom of the seats.i cant believe 1.5'' can cause this much camber!!!

any rate here are some pics.driver side has 2.75* and passenger side has 1.75*,looks much better in person.these are my street tires(33x12.50) not my PJ's(36x14.50)

 

[4x4junkie]

You've checked to make sure your steering isn't influencing it, did you? That linkage looks waaayy jacked up

Does the suspension lower down and then raise up at all whenever you reverse directions?

 

[jd4242]

You've checked to make sure your steering isn't influencing it, did you? That linkage looks waaayy jacked up

Does the suspension lower down and then raise up at all whenever you reverse directions?

yes it is but not that much.still need to do the other side and align it.what do you mean the steering looks jacked up?its really not that bad and there is nothing i can do about that.obviously it was flatter before i raised it 1.5"

what do you mean "does it lower and raise when i reverse directions"?

 

[4x4junkie]

yes it is but not that much.still need to do the other side and align it.what do you mean the steering looks jacked up?its really not that bad and there is nothing i can do about that.obviously it was flatter before i raised it 1.5"

what do you mean "does it lower and raise when i reverse directions"?

Does the camber appear to get worse after you drive forward 20 feet, but then looks better after you back up that same 20 feet (or vice-versa)?

You're also saying you already have a Skyjacker #FA600 drop pitman arm? Because that linkage seems awfully high up to be on a FA600 arm to me... You must really have a lot of lift on it.

 

[jd4242]

Does the camber appear to get worse after you drive forward 20 feet, but then looks better after you back up that same 20 feet (or vice-versa)?

You're also saying you already have a Skyjacker #FA600 drop pitman arm? Because that linkage seems awfully high up to be on a FA600 arm to me... You must really have a lot of lift on it.

it stays the same.yes i have the fa 600 on there,i have 7.5" of lift in the front.thats if f150 seats only give you 1.5"

 

[4x4junkie]

Ok, well seems your toe alignment isn't too far off then (bad toe would cause it to artificially raise or lower, affecting the camber).

7.5" is really a lot of lift though... (too much, really) I think your only choice may be to shave those spacers down some (that, or get bigger drop brackets, which would only make your steering linkage concern only that much more urgent).

 

[jd4242]

Ok, well seems your toe alignment isn't too far off then (bad toe would cause it to artificially raise or lower, affecting the camber).

7.5" is really a lot of lift though... (too much, really) I think your only choice may be to shave those spacers down some.

I honestly say they gave me about little over 2"!!so im running about 8.15" in frontyea im going to do other side and align it and do some math.im thinking about 3/8 need to be cut off the seats.i have the biggest bushings and pretty sure my springs have sagged all they are going to now.im running 9" in the rear and my front is about a 1" higher.running 99 springs,AAL and two inch blocks!

 

[Maniak]

You should build some camber plates. Just take a pair of 14"x14" pieces of sheet metal and put some bearing grease between them. Now put that combo under your tire.

Do that for both sides and now when your messing with the alignment you won't have to drive/bounce the truck around to unload the suspension. It never loads when on those plates.

~Mark