Blown engine... need recommendations

[kduval]

Hi folks. First post here, and unfortunately it comes out of desperation. Less than a year ago I purchased a 2002 Explorer, 6cyl, 2wd, 5 speed. It had a little over 120k miles, and is in all around great shape. The fella I bought it from told me he just had both front and rear timing chains replaced. Are there two timing chains? Anyway, I have put about 10k since... mostly highway miles, but I do haul a trailer. Thursday night 500 miles from home it died in the middle of the highway in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic. I thought that I just stalled it trying to take off on a hill with the trailer... it didnt start again Had it towed to two different places and they both said the engine is done and needs replacing. So now it seems that I have more questions than I do options. Not that I can do anything about it, but is there a way to tell if the timing chains have been replaced? If a timing chain broke, will the valves or other components be damaged? I know that some motors are non interference and when a chain/belt breaks there will be no damage to the valves etc. Is it worth repairing, or would a swap for a rebuilt engine be a better option? Can you recommend a quality rebuilt engine, or can you recommend someone in the Rockville MD area that can do a quality repair job on this engine? The truck could also use a new clutch... which option would lend itself to making that job easier? I would assume engine swap, but I am just guessing. Thanks for reading, and ang guidance that you can give.

 

[2000StreetRod]

interference engine

The SOHC V6 is an interference engine. When camshaft timing is lost the pistons may strike the valves.

There is a cassette (sprockets, chain & guide assembly) for each camshaft.

Each cassette has a spring/hydraulic tensioner.

There are also sprockets, chain, guide and tensioner for the crankshaft to jackshaft.

The engines on 4WD vehicles have a balance shaft and associated sprockets, chain, tensioner and guide.

Various improvements were made after the engine was used in production starting in 1997. All of the improvements were incorporated in the 2002 and later vehicles.

I think the only way to determine if the timing chain components have been replaced is by inspecting them. The OEM components are fairly expensive so many owners replace the failed components with aftermarket components. There are some relatively inexpensive components available on eBay which may just be junk. Replacing the components is fairly involved and normally requires the use of a fairly expensive timing tool kit. Replacing the right cassette requires either removal of the engine or the transmission.

Was a compression test performed by the mechanics? Low compression on all cylinders in one bank indicates a slipped timing chain for that bank but possibly no valve damage. No compression on all cylinders in one bank indicates a slipped or broken timing chain with a good chance of valve damage.

The SOHC V6 is fairly expensive (parts cost & labor) to rebuild. Many members just purchase a lower mileage long block from a salvage yard and swap it with the failed engine. They take the chance that the engine won't fail in the near future.

 

[Exproblems]

. Is it worth repairing, or would a swap for a rebuilt engine be a better option? Can you recommend a quality rebuilt engine, or can you recommend someone in the Rockville MD area that can do a quality repair job on this engine? The truck could also use a new clutch... which option would lend itself to making that job easier? I would assume engine swap, but I am just guessing. Thanks for reading, and ang guidance that you can give.

The 4.0L V-6 engine in my 2005 Explorer "jumped out of time" due to bad timing chain guide tensioners last August 2013. This happened during engine startup one morning and the motor never started. The rear timing chain or "right bank" was affected and to repair this, the motor needed to come out of the vehicle. Most likely the right bank valves were bent when the timing chain jumped out of time. The engine only had 96k in miles on it at the time of failure. As 2000Streetrod has told you, the time it takes to repair this engine by breaking it down and replacing and cleaning out any broken parts and pieces of plastic costs more in labor, than it does to simply just buy another engine and have it installed into your vehicle.
I was lucky, I had an extended warranty on my vehicle and I took my vehicle to a Ford dealership to have them repair it thru my warranty. I got a Remanufactured Ford 4.0L V-6 engine (which is basically a new engine) directly from Ford (Engine only price $3200, comes w/a 3 year, unlimited mileage parts and labor warranty) and the engine R&R cost at a Ford dealership was $1600-$1800. The R&R cost also included the evacuation and refill of my AC system. The final price total came to $5200 with the tax incl, but I had them do a few extras to the engine work by installing new "serpentine belt, starter, fuel filter and Castle Fireball fuel injector cleaner and they installed a new starter wire bundle/harness. The starter motor I bought myself at Advance Auto Parts and brought it to Ford to have them install during the engine R&R.
There are a lot of online places (like Jasper) you can shop for a new or used motor, just use your search engine to find them, and whether it is a new or used motor, they all come with varying degrees of warranties or new parts installed on them depending on what you decide to buy. On a used motor, you have to look at the mileage on it as well. If you go junkyard for an engine, you are rolling the dice there. On the Ford reman engine I got, you get included with the engine price a new "harmonic balancer, water pump, t-stat and housing, valve covers, spark plugs, cover plates and all new seals and gaskets. Other than the engine block which is refurbished, everything you get with a reman motor is brand new. Your old intake manifold and exhaust headers get swapped over to the new motor if in good shape, mine were. I don't know if all reman engine builders or suppliers give you all those new parts with the purchase of a new reman motor, something to look into if you go that route.
Anyway you go used or new, you are looking at approx. $1000-$3000K + for a motor, plus $1000-$1800 for the Removal & Replacement (R&R) labor depending on who you have do the work. Good luck!

 

[kduval]

Thank you guys for the detailed responses. Yes, they did a compression test and said that there was no compression on half of the cylinders, and 50% compression on the other half. Looks like major damage is likely, so I guess engine replacement, or a new vehicle are my options. Being that the rest of the vehicle is in such good shape I will likely have the engine replaced, along with the clutch. I have seen all the reman motors on Ebay from different sources and was hoping this forum could recommend one of them that uses quality parts and comes with a good warranty.Also, as the vehicle is still 500 miles from home, was hoping someone could recommend a reliable spot in the Silver Spring, MD area that could tackle this job in the coming week? Thanks again

 

[Bobmbx]

Just a few months ago I replaced my 06 V6 with a short block. Total cost was ~$5000 (labor and re-man block). The block came with a 3 year/unlimited miles warranty on parts and labor (at the shop rate at time of install).

The engine came from PowerTrain Products, Inc. So far, its running as promised after about 9000 miles.

The old engine had 190,000 miles on it.

 

[kduval]

Well it keeps getting better with this vehicle. Turns out (as I am sure that some of you know) that this 2002 4 door, 5 speed explorer is a pretty uncommon vehicle. Apparently the clutch that Ford used was basically an experiment, and was never really produced, so it is no longer available. A conversion kit is available from one company in the world, and runs close to eight hundred dollars to the door. I really like this vehicle, but it is becoming difficult to swallow putting close to $6K into a vehicle that is already twelve years old.

FWIW... The mechanic currently working on the vehicle says that the timing chain does appear to have been replaced fairly recently. I suspect that they just used some cheap aftermarket parts.

 

[2000StreetRod]

clutch pressure plate

Rock Auto has two clutch pressure plates in stock for $132 each. I think most of the 2002 5 speed manual transmissions were in the Sport. Just be glad you don't have the automatic transmission which is one of the highest failure transmissions of any of the Explorers.

 

[kduval]

Hey 2000StreetRod... You seem pretty knowledgeable and resourceful...would you be interested in tackling this job?

How could I be sure that those are the right plates? Everything that I have read says they're impossible to find... thats what caused a need for the conversion kit to be developed.

 

[2000StreetRod]

clutch kits

Rock Auto also shows multiple clutch kits (pressure plate, disc, release bearing, etc.) available from $140 to $250. I suggest that you call them and confirm the kit is right for your vehicle.

Sorry, but I only work on my own vehicles (and not even all of them). I limit my time to 2 hours a day so working on them stays enjoyable instead of becoming a drudgery. In addition, I spend time on the forum and researching on the internet possible modifications to my Sport. I am thoroughly enjoying my retirement.

 

[kduval]

No Worries 2000StreetRod I was mostly kidding anyhow. Glad you are enjoying your retirement. I am capable of handling this job myself, but I really prefer to find someone that can do a quality job, efficiently, at a good price. I am still uncertain whether I want to have the work done in Maryland/DC where the vehicle crapped out, or haul it down here to NC and have it done... if I do it at all.

I am still a bit confused about the clutch situation as well. Here is the thread on this forum that has caused me this concern. I would agree with the quote from this thread that states " times like this... rare is not good"

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266510

I am assuming that that I have this rare clutch since it appears that it was only put into the 2002 four door, 5 speed explorers. I contacted the Southland Clutch and told them I had gotten their number off of the explorer forum and they new immediately that I had the 2002 four door.

 

[2000StreetRod]

26 spline clutch

After reading the thread you linked I understand the problem. All of the Rock Auto clutches I found are the 23 spline instead of the 26 spline you need. I searched the internet and it looks like Southland Clutch is the only source.

 

[kduval]

Thanks for doing that search 2000 StreetRod.

Yeah, as far as I have found Southland is the only source in the world, and they have shipped hundreds of these all over the world. They are very nice over there at Southland, but with absolutely no competition, they pretty much got ya by the grapes. $700 plus s+h seems a bit much.

Although I know that I will have a hard time finding a reliable vehicle that suits all my needs for the same cost, spending $6k on an old Ford Explorer is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[kduval]

Sold to salvage yard... so long Ford... never again.

 

[Bobbylew]

I just did the R&R on my 2004 and when the engine was ready to go back in, I couldn't get the torque converter mated up to the transmission. I had to pull the converter with the engine due to one freaking nut rounding off that held the converter to the flex plate! Getting the converter to mate now requires the tranny to be set on its tail and mate the converter that way. Marvelous!

It took five days to get the trans/transfer case out. I had left questions on an older thread, but, apparently, this is a non-DIY Forum. Anyway, The junk is out of the junk and I'll clean it up, replace the lower crossmember bolts that broke off (All 4!) replace the filter, mate the torque converter, possibly order the accumulator repair kits and put the junk back in the junk! If it has another major crap out, it goes to my buddy's scrap yard!

Design engineers should be required to work at least one year in the field, repairing the garbage they design!

F O R D = F*ck Over Repair Dudes !!!