14 to 18 MPG @ $4.50 per!! A possible Fix:

[racprops]

"I run a Gearvendors OD in my hot rod. It's a super simple setup and does it's job very well. I'm watching this thread to see how it all works out for you."


Thanks, so I take it your not trying for great MPG but perhaps just to tame a high rear end??

I read so many bad things about the early Gear Venders that I cannot trust them.....and after spending near $4k. Fear it might not work out then what do you do??

As for my Van with the US Gear I CAN tow with it, and even run in its OD behind my stock third...so it will be like running in the stock forth gear.

Have you tried running at 1500 to 1800 RPMs and seen what MPG you get?

Rich

 

[Josh P]

I doubt his hot rod idles below 1500 rpm.

 

[racprops]

"I doubt his hot rod idles below 1500 rpm."

Most likely your right....One interesting thing that really encouraged me was a report that the 4.6 in these SUVs are tuned to product some 80% of its peek torque at 1500RPMs and only gains some 20FP more at its peek of 3K.

Thus one problem I am aware of is lugging an engine, where you need MORE throttle and thus fuel to keep it running and pulling the load below its torque peek. MPG is made only when an engine can easily pull its load normally near or at its torque peek.

Most of my early Chevy 350s had their torque peek at 2800RPMs dropping them to 1500 will not work.

Yet my 93 350 Van engine with its overdrive transmission had a torque peek at 2200RPMs and it seemly could make good MPG at 2000RPMs. But that was at 60/65MPH and I cannot drive a 65MPH...

My old 2000 Mercury Grand Marques with its NPI engine (Not performance Improved, 200HP vs 04's PI and 250HP) WAS able to get 27/30MPG at 1750RPMs at 65MPH stock, and running a lean burn setting of 16.4 air/fuel ratios could get 34/35MPG.

This was not practicable for day to day driving, it was a manually changed A/F system only able to do as a test.

I am looking for someone willing to do such a tune...of to learn to program a AEM's 30-1930 Universal Fuel/ignition Controller a addon power tuner that CAN be programed to slip into a lean burn under preset conditions like a RPM range of 1500 to 2500, and under a light load to run lean and to automatically slip back to stock 14.7 A/F ratios with any change of load requiring more fuel.

It can also be used for power tuning, so I can have it both ways, better MPG at low RPMs and a little more performance in higher RPMs, and with time peek both settings for their max.

The main drawback is they are not a cheap fix. If you can find one they can run from $500.00 UP.

I got one a decade ago, and the programing was a stopping point for me then, plus I was searching for a simple easier low cost fix..one(s) that I could buy/make and install for under 1K and make a bunch of money doing them, so I passed it by as too costly in price and time to tune. By the time one has bought one and fine tuned it the costs looked to run around $1500 to 2k...not a great selling point.

But I now can take the time to tune it FOR my own SUV I fully plan on adding it to my Explorer as well. Inless I do find atuner to do it FOR me and thus other.

Much as I plan on running a 85/90 Camaro;s TPI with ITS built in Lean Burn Cruse (later called Highway mode) program which back in the day allow them to get 30/35MPG on my special SBC 383.

Yes GM did it back in the 80s....

So it is not a wild out there Idea. But it can make more NOX, not good. But add more EGR of water injection to clean that up.

Rich

 

[joney]

"I doubt his hot rod idles below 1500 rpm."

Most likely your right....One interesting thing that really encouraged me was a report that the 4.6 in these SUVs are tuned to product some 80% of its peek torque at 1500RPMs and only gains some 20FP more at its peek of 3K.

Thus one problem I am aware of is lugging an engine, where you need MORE throttle and thus fuel to keep it running and pulling the load below its torque peek. MPG is made only when an engine can easily pull its load normally near or at its torque peek.

Most of my early Chevy 350s had their torque peek at 2800RPMs dropping them to 1500 will not work.

Yet my 93 350 Van engine with its overdrive transmission had a torque peek at 2200RPMs and it seemly could make good MPG at 2000RPMs. But that was at 60/65MPH and I cannot drive a 65MPH...

My old 2000 Mercury Grand Marques with its NPI engine (Not performance Improved, 200HP vs 04's PI and 250HP) WAS able to get 27/30MPG at 1750RPMs at 65MPH stock, and running a lean burn setting of 16.4 air/fuel ratios could get 34/35MPG.

This was not practicable for day to day driving, it was a manually changed A/F system only able to do as a test.

I am looking for someone willing to do such a tune...of to learn to program a AEM's 30-1930 Universal Fuel/ignition Controller a addon power tuner that CAN be programed to slip into a lean burn under preset conditions like a RPM range of 1500 to 2500, and under a light load to run lean and to automatically slip back to stock 14.7 A/F ratios with any change of load requiring more fuel.

It can also be used for power tuning, so I can have it both ways, better MPG at low RPMs and a little more performance in higher RPMs, and with time peek both settings for their max.

The main drawback is they are not a cheap fix. If you can find one they can run from $500.00 UP.

I got one a decade ago, and the programing was a stopping point for me then, plus I was searching for a simple easier low cost fix..one(s) that I could buy/make and install for under 1K and make a bunch of money doing them, so I passed it by as too costly in price and time to tune. By the time one has bought one and fine tuned it the costs looked to run around $1500 to 2k...not a great selling point.

But I now can take the time to tune it FOR my own SUV I fully plan on adding it to my Explorer as well. Inless I do find atuner to do it FOR me and thus other.

Much as I plan on running a 85/90 Camaro;s TPI with ITS built in Lean Burn Cruse (later called Highway mode) program which back in the day allow them to get 30/35MPG on my special SBC 383.

Yes GM did it back in the 80s....

So it is not a wild out there Idea. But it can make more NOX, not good. But add more EGR of water injection to clean that up.

Rich

Have been following this interesting thread! You stated you can't drive 55 or 65 - what speed do you plan on driving with this build? What percentage of the time? Have been wondering whether going at low rpms carbons things up like idling a lot. However, most of this discussion is way beyond my knowledge level - but fascinating!

 

[Mbrooks420]

Have been following this interesting thread! You stated you can't drive 55 or 65 - what speed do you plan on driving with this build? What percentage of the time? Have been wondering whether going at low rpms carbons things up like idling a lot. However, most of this discussion is way beyond my knowledge level - but fascinating!

You never learn anything if you only look at discussions that are below your level.

 

[Josh P]

Looking at the parts list to make this happen, seems like the tail housing overdrive units mopar used 10-20 years ago would be less work. The 42RE in my grand cherokee has one.

 

[racprops]

"You stated you can't drive 55 or 65 - what speed do you plan on driving with this build? What percentage of the time? Have been wondering whether going at low rpms carbons things up like idling a lot."

Well I plan on taking rod trips, in and around Phoenix AZ. Out freeways in town are posted 65MPH, almost everyone runs at 75MPH, out side the city most freeways are posted 75MPH and most drive at 80/85MPH.

If you look at the chart I posted earlier you will see that with my second Overdrives, my Explorer will be running at 75 MPH and turning 1670 RPMs and at 85 will be running 1880RPMs. Both should be very good on MPG.

As for carbon buildup, as I will be sopping for gas and food, and passing other cars there will be preanty of full power burns to clean out cylinder carbon, and as these are Port Injected not Direct, the intake valves are kept clean by the fuel injection. A new problem they are running into with direct injection.

Rich

 

[racprops]

"Looking at the parts list to make this happen, seems like the tail housing overdrive units mopar used 10-20 years ago would be less work. The 42RE in my grand cherokee has one."

Looking into that, it is not a complete stand alone system. So rigging it up to run alone looks a lot more complex that the Old Borg Warner system. The OD of the 42RE is controlled by the main transmission. Right off the top is its long tail housing its self...takes up a lot of room.

The B&W is a truly self controlled system, all function is done regardless of what the front 3 speed is doing, you can switch in and out of over drive in all of the tree gears of the front 3 speed.

It is called gear splitting, each gear is different, so 1st gear is one ratio and 1stOD gear is .70 taller or kind of 1.70 so it is slight over 1/2 be-tween 1st and 2nd. And so is 2nd to 2OD and 3 to 3rd OD.

You then have (If you want to use them) A 6 speed.

In the Explorer you can have 10 gears using a OD in any of its 5 gears.

But I find the 5 gears are very well laid out so do not see any reason to use a OD in any thing other than as a 6th gear.

But it might work in say a mountain climb, where 5od (6th) and 5th cannot climb well and 4th runs too high a RPM and 4OD might be just right....

I do remember in my 74 Van times when pulling up a mountain in third was lossing it and OMG 2nd was racing the engine so I HAD to drop speed to get the engine down to 3K...A 3rd OD would have been nice.

Rich

 

[RangerNutt]

...Any success with having the splines cut/ground?

I have a shop that does axles all the time, I had two output shafts splined for $150.00. look up this page for pictures...

Guessing the hardness at Rc 32 - 38. It's doable but no fun for the guy running the machine. Might have to seek out a specialty shop.

Great you already have a shop, reasonably priced too. Out of curiosity, if the guy mentions the surface hardness, would you post it? (Splines in such power transmission applications have to be extremely precise and accurate, something that gets much more difficult beyond the OEM factory.)

If the parts don't break and your fuel savings are high enough, this could become a popular mod!

 

[racprops]

"Out of curiosity, if the guy mentions the surface hardness, would you post it? (Splines in such power transmission applications have to be extremely precise and accurate, something that gets much more difficult beyond the OEM factory.)"

I believe he said it will be as hard as the main metal.

None the less I had them made as long as I could, some 4 inches...so that the stress is put though as much/many splines as possible. And I have seen a LOT shorted factory systems.

Rich

 

[racprops]

OK Pulled the bearing off the input shaft to the overdrive.

Cleaned it and marked it for machining, and did a Photoshop set of pictures for the work I want done:

Will be mailing it and a 400 Yoke to shop this week.

Rich

 

[donalds]

Interesting

 

[racprops]

I relised the bearing is backed up to the large spines so will have a little left to hold it.

Rich

 

[sport trac jr.]

OK Pulled the bearing off the input shaft to the overdrive.

Cleaned it and marked it for machining, and did a Photoshop set of pictures for the work I want done:

Will be mailing it and a 400 Yoke to shop this week.

Rich

View attachment 427941 View attachment 427942 View attachment 427944 View attachment 427945 View attachment 427946

Id rather go with MAGA country idea of pumping more oil at 1.89 gal vs. focusing the market on jacking the gas price up to run you into a electric car thats a joke candy ass sham car that the technology is not their, its all a lie except jacked gas prices.....which is why gas is up on propose to move people to joke electric cars......its like getting ***** slapped by that candy ass Will Smith over GI Jane and eating it........................
like Chris Rock.....the oil is their and on purpose its not being pumped....by LG Brandon is why all this gas stuff is happen, no other reason.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Id rather go with MAGA country idea of pumping more oil at 1.89 gal vs. focusing the market on jacking the gas price up to run you into a electric car thats a joke candy ass sham car that the technology is not their, its all a lie except jacked gas prices.....which is why gas is up on propose to move people to joke electric cars......its like getting ***** slapped by that candy ass Will Smith over GI Jane and eating it........................
like Chris Rock.....the oil is their and on purpose its not being pumped....by LG Brandon is why all this gas stuff is happen, no other reason.

You need a hug, bro?

 

[sport trac jr.]

You need a hug, bro?

LOL.....Im secure in my logic, but will take a hug from kim kardashian like I need to be in safe corner so she can protect my johnson.....
and even buy a fake electric sham car for her.....While in my head Im in MAGA country.....with logic and oil......and the industrial revolution that
she thinks is a twitter account. Probably 75% of the country dont know what moving parts are..... tolerance with in .005 means or
end play....heat expansion...we are dealing with post cro magnon IQs.........running the country where solar panels will produce 4000 billion kilowatt hours to run the US grid.......this is the thing dreams are made of in Hollywood, like Kirk Douglas, Charles Bronson, Eastwood, dream makers, while Chris Rock is getting ***** slapped in LA by a flaming fool.......out of control...while by mid summer gas will be 5.00 here and 8.00 in LA or more,
thats when the real melt down starts......at 8.00 plus in LA.....As they said the "adults are back in control" was the phrase....as the wheels come off
with "these adults are in control"......of jack. When you hear the dems say "the adults are in control" ....run or drive as fast you can away.....and
dont forget your wallet thats what they are after...........its really the "cro magnon are in charge"

 

[Josh P]

Complaining about the situation does solve anything.

 

[sport trac jr.]

Complaining about the situation does solve anything.

LOL.....Complaining about it, that funny prob 75% of the country does no the grid volume actual is at 4000 billion kilowatt hours, that we actually
have 200 years of oil and they are being played........to the oil price to be forced higher and forced into electric cars that are not solvent in fact or practical, its called taking advantage of the masses by being misinformed of real facts.....by you know like they said the "adults are in control now"...now you might believe that the "adults are in control now " and thats OK......I was not a oder taker in grade school and figured out a long time ago some adults in Washington were bat ass loons.......and the group "THE WHO' were killer players........and dont trust any one that uses the
adult line on you......"adults are in control now"..............

 

[RangerNutt]

OK Pulled the bearing off the input shaft to the overdrive...

It's likely you would provide this info to the shop by phone, email, etc., the two length specs shown (example dimensions are arbitrary). The shoulder thickness only needs to be wide enough to support the bearing against the highest axial load. But the 'full depth of spline' point has potential to save money on the job, proportional to how far right it is. (Spline that never makes contact with the mating part is a waste.)

A strategy to get the lowest shop cost would be to let them cut the shoulder at the rightmost point they determine (using their chosen methods) is needed for clearance to machine the spline. This should minimize material removal and cost.

Like many situations in life, there are people lined up to make decisions for you who may be satisfied by outcomes that weren't best for you. Directing events (by specification in this case) allows the one paying the bills to be happiest.

 

[racprops]

Very good points: And a good eye I make it as .020 as well.

So: Here is farther details:

And I have two Yokes, a flange with 6 inches internal spline and a yoke with 5 inches.

Once I have the shaft back I will then machine the best one to engage as much of the splines as possible.

I also will then machine the best fit version to fit the tail housings bearings and rig a 400 rear seal well lubricated with wheel bearing grease.