2003 explorer timing chain saga

[kryhavoc]

Gentlemen,

Long time lurker first time caller. First off... thanks for all the information. This site has been an invaluable resource for my Ford adventures

I do however have a problem i would love your learned opinions on. I have a 98 exploder... typical timing chain noises started up front about 6 months ago. it has 213k on the ticker and i did what most people do... i looked for another one. I found a 2003 explorer with 109k and very nice looking with leather and third row seating. The guy i bought it from said the transmission was shifting hard after it got hot. It was priced at 1700$ and i bought it. I put in the servo bore fix valves i found on researching the problem here and all was fixed. woohoo cheap truck!!

Now, it had a intake leak that occasionally flared and made life hard so i went to replace that lower gasket... hmm valve covers need a new gasket too... hmm... where is the rear timing chain guide? CRAP. Thanks to the comprehensive guides by 2000streetrod... i knew what it meant.

ok.. i pulled the motor. I replaced it with a Cloyes 90398SB timing kit and used new TTY bolts from tasca which i found on here. weekends drag by and working in the cold florida weather (yeah right) i finally get it back together two months later. I have replaced more small parts than you can shake a stick at in the process and every timing component including the balance shaft ones. Why ford made that dumb oil pan lower cradle design i will never understand. It fires up and has a few codes... i work them out and voila i have a new truck... or so i thought.

30 miles after it regains life... the primary cat on the passenger side crumbles and plugs the rear cat. in traffic... with the kids... on a sunday.... after a magnificent lunch.... in 85 degree heat... after i trouble shoot the issue i find the broken cat pieces and clean it out of the second converter and temporarily connect the pipes back together with a new cat system (400$) on order. i figure i banged it around in the garage in the two months it sat there and cracked it....

i had a weird oil leak that happened when i was running the engine trying to figure out the cat was plugged... i had half a quart on the driveway... from the rear main area but its behind the transmission bell and i cant see exactly where. it only happened after the cat acted up and it has NOT done it again since, not even a drop. I am thinking excess pressure in the crankcase pushed it out a seal or something but it resealed itself. i now put the vehicle back in service and drive 200 more miles trouble free. yes just 200 more miles.

i cranked the truck last sunday to head over to lowe's to get some yard supplies and before i get out of the driveway it stalls and bucks one time.

i crank it back and it runs like CRAP at low RPMS. if i rev the engine it seems to run fine after it stumbles its way up and even all the way back down to 1200-1400 RPMS and then starts stumbling badly and eventually cuts off when RPMS are below 900ish. did the other CAT blow? what the heck happened now?

i troubleshoot.... CMP, CKP sensors and misfires come up in the code scan. i have a theory and i am not sure how to describe my mood. The engine does run.. but crappy until the RPMS get to 1300-1400 RPMS and then all seems fine. i did a compression test.... driver side is averaging 60PSI while the pass side is running 150PSI. i am beginning to think the timing chain jumped a tooth... but how.. its BRAND NEW. I bought the OTC 6488 kit.. i used new bolts... i used new gaskets... i spared NO expense. I have replaced more timing chains and belts than i care to recount. I clearly think i screwed up... until i take it apart and find a broken piece which Orielly's will warranty but the labor and downtime.. again, not again. Not to mention the hit to my ego and automotive rebuild reputation. I have four vehicles over 200k miles and three 70's era jeeps and if i ain't welding or wrenching on them on a regular basis.... i must be in the hospital.

Now the question... what are the odds the valves contacted the pistons if it only jumped a single tooth? The engine does run smoothly above 1200 RPMS.... is that a good sign or does it matter. i am planning on removing the intake and timing cover this weekend to have a better look but i am seriously considering throwing the investment thus far in the "i'll know better than to do this again" bucket and go have a car payment.


Kevin, who drives a noisy 98 ford exploder again while the 2003 sits in the driveway collecting pollen.

 

[Number4]

Do you have a borescope? Maybe Autozone rents one. Pull the plugs and look with the scope for piston contact marks.

 

[Tech By Trade]

If you don't, pop the valve cover and have a look. If the compression is good on one side it has to be the chain from the jackshaft to the cam on the bad side. Could be the gear on the jackshaft or the cam want torqued properly as well. I know the passenger side cam is a left hand thread and I ended up having to buy a beam style wrench to torque it properly because my tick style wouldn't do left thread. Good thing I did too, because I was 25 lbs short doing it by guessing.

 

[kryhavoc]

I acquired a borescope today and will check out the cylinders this afternoon after work.

Funny you mention that, i had a friend who still had a beam style torque wrench i borrowed... i validated it by torquing a nut to 50 and 75 ftlbs with a click type and then followed up with the beam to get the bolt to move again... it was within 5ftlbs of the click style.

I agree its the driver side cassette that has slipped or jumped... but taking the valve cover off means i have to remove the dang intake again which has that one T27 star bit bolt in the back that my arm just can't reach. so now i have to call my skinny armed friend and ply him with jack and coke till that bolt comes out.

 

[kryhavoc]

pistons do not appear to have any indentations or strike marks from the valves. There is a black carbon? looking layer over 50/60% of the piston tops. That layer is really soft now after soaking in gas deposited by the injectors while the plugs were out and i did the compression test. guess i will take it apart again this weekend and re-time the cam and make sure the bolts are torqued down firmly... again.

 

[Number4]

I'd make O'Rilley's do what's called a Labor Claim on the repair. Get your replacement parts, pay for them if possible..... Scratch that, tell them you want labor compensation. They have two options, one is an in house comp., this will be the least amount of money you get ($50 or so.) The other option is for them to contact the product manufacturer.

If you go route two, you'll need to send in the bad parts, copies of all your receipts etc (showing you did it right.) They may even want to come out and see it. Route two will net you the biggest return.

Keep in mind, you may have engine damage. You won't know until you really tear in, or fire it back up. So think long term with whatever you agree to.

They may tell you these claims are only for wholesale. That's when you say they need to get the manufacturer involved because the failure isn't wear related but product quality related.

 

[kryhavoc]

the driver side timing chain is BROKEN.... i'll post pics later. and i may have found an intake valve mark on cylinder 5. It is a real light mark on the piston but i didn't see it till i cleaned the pistons and scoped it again.

 

[kryhavoc]

Cloyes quality... maybe not this time.

Well, This is what i found.. and coupled with the low compression numbers i saw on the driver side i think the engine is done.

Valve cover view.... This cant be good.

I was right it isn't good.

This tensioner is pushing the main chain at an off angle which pushed the other chain and well snap.

As soon as i finish the claims process with Oreillys and Cloyes i may have some Ford Explorer parts for sale.

 

[Number4]

Did you contact them yet about this? If so, what did they say?

Looks like they'll be comping you an engine of some kind.

 

[kryhavoc]

I have a quote from Firestone for Timing chain replacement... 3200$ and i have another one supposed to be ready today for engine replacement from Tuffy Automotive. I have no idea what they will do for me... but i do intend to publish here and to social media how the situation is handled either good or bad.

 

[Number4]

Make sure you hear back from O'Reilly and or Cloyes before doing the repair. A Cloyes rep will want to see the unmalested damaged engine.

Also, you'll want to most likely replace the Pistons and valves on the damaged side, not just put on new timing components. So the Firestone quote is probably not sufficient.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Wow, A cloyes catastrophic failure. Those are the ones I would have recommended. Keep us posted on the outcome.

 

[kryhavoc]

three to six weeks for normal resolution... The store manager said he was going to try and push the process along.

He sent the broken parts to Cloyes for analysis to determine the cause of failure.

Hoping for a good outcome.

 

[Tech By Trade]

I'm sure they will come up with some way to blame you, you don't get rich writing a lot of cheques. On a side note, best of luck to you.

 

[kryhavoc]

So, Two weeks and no rejection or offers as of yet.

Anyone have any experience dealing with a labor claim on a part that they can share?

 

[Tech By Trade]

If my experience in the past is like this situation, they are in the mode of sitting there hoping everyone will forget about it and no one will contact them. If you contact them, their next step will be to get heavy handed and try and blame you for the situation, especially if they have no leg to stand on. Trying to scare you off. After that, if you keep on them, they usually come up with some meet in the middle garbage and give you a pittance of what the actual cost is. If that runs out they usually have to pay up, but that will take a large amount of your time and effort on your part. Just my experience with this type of situation. Said it before, you don't get rich writing a lot of cheques.

 

[boominXplorer]

I don't think they are Cloyes guides. I haven't bought a set in about 3 months but they have always had brown or tan plastic guides. White is either OEM Ford or cheap chinese crap from my experience.

 

[Number4]

The guides that came in my Cloyes set (4.6l) had FOMOCO molded into them.

 

[boominXplorer]

The guides that came in my Cloyes set (4.6l) had FOMOCO molded into them.

Yes this is true with the 4.6 kit. It comes with the same guides you would get at Ford. The cloyes tensioners are different from the Ford ones or at least were in the past 2 kits I have bought(both in the past year).

 

[kryhavoc]

Cloyes came back with a "Deny" claim status this morning. Their reasoning was limited to "no labor claim form attached" when there were clearly two attached. I know first level claims are supposed to be hard to get through but one would hope that there is a company out there that would put more effort into actually looking at the claim filed. Especially since they already took longer than two months to get to this stage.

Does anyone know good contacts at Cloyes for social media departments?

so far Cloyes is disappointing me on the support side of their products.