2014 New battery no start

[thinkjerm]

I have a 2014 Explorer that I purchase brand new and currently has about 88k miles.

Vehicle ran fine two Fridays ago while driving it four about 4 hours straight with multiple start/stops. The following Wednesday the vehicle ran fine for 2 short trips and a few start/stop cycles. Thursday a pressed the start button and all electrical worked fine but the vehicle would not crank. I was able to jump start the vehicle and as the battery was about 5 years old I decided to purchase a new battery. Installed the new battery this Monday and still no start. I charged the battery overnight just in case it wasn't fully charged from the factory. Today, I tried to start the vehicle again and it sounded stronger but still would not crank, it was more of a short burst and then power would cut off.

Currently, I can start the vehicle using jumper cables but only if the other vehicle is revved up to about 3k RPM, if the jumping vehicle is at idle I get no start.

I do have FORscan and did reset the battery management, still will not start.

At this point I'm at a lose for what to check next. I don't believe it is the starter as it starts everytime I put jumper cables on it. And I don't think it's the battery as it is brand new and when I watch the oscilloscope in FORscan the voltage is normal.

Does anyone have recommendations on where to look next? I did notice that there is a sensor that looks like an ammeter on the ground wires from the battery, would that cause a no start issue?

Some history on the vehicle - I've had numerous electrical components replaced under warranty due to motor failures so I always suspected the vehicle had major electrical issues. I've had three driver side mirrors, four passenger side mirrors, three rear hatch struts, one sunroof motor, and one sunshade motor all replaced.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Odrapnew]

Double check your battery cables both at the battery and other end.
Possible one of those is loose.
Cables at the battery were clean, correct?

When you jumped it, where did you have the jumper cable ground attached?

 

[thinkjerm]

Double check your battery cables both at the battery and other end.
Possible one of those is loose.
Cables at the battery were clean, correct?

When you jumped it, where did you have the jumper cable ground attached?

Yes, battery terminals were cleaned. When I jump started I grounded to the chassis.

 

[Odrapnew]

I wonder if it's the other end of the ground cable. Since it started with jumper on chassis, that sort of bypasses the battery.

Maybe check the ground cable to chassis connection. Also remove, clean and reconnect battery connections again.

Just trying to think of simple things to check first.

 

[thinkjerm]

I wonder if it's the other end of the ground cable. Since it started with jumper on chassis, that sort of bypasses the battery.

Maybe check the ground cable to chassis connection. Also remove, clean and reconnect battery connections again.

Just trying to think of simple things to check first.

Just recleaned the terminals and put the battery back in still no start. I then used a jumper wire to bypass the relay and the vehicle started but was throwing codes for Advance Trac, oil pressure, and other systems/sensors.

I used a test light and found that the ignition was sending a good signal to the starter relay but the relay itself has a very weak ground.

I'm going to check the chassis side ground cable and and the ground into the main fuse box and will update when finished.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Does the relay get its control circuit through the relay base? If so this might need pulled and cleaned.

 

[peterk9]

Just recleaned the terminals and put the battery back in still no start. I then used a jumper wire to bypass the relay and the vehicle started but was throwing codes for Advance Trac, oil pressure, and other systems/sensors.

I used a test light and found that the ignition was sending a good signal to the starter relay but the relay itself has a very weak ground.

I'm going to check the chassis side ground cable and and the ground into the main fuse box and will update when finished.

Do you at least hear a click noise from the starter solenoid when you attempt to start it? There shouldn't be a need to rev the 'donor' vehicle.
Could it be the starter or alternator? Those are common issues for a no start condition.

Peter

 

[thinkjerm]

Do you at least hear a click noise from the starter solenoid when you attempt to start it? There shouldn't be a need to rev the 'donor' vehicle.
Could it be the starter or alternator? Those are common issues for a no start condition.

Peter

I don't here a click but I do get an abrupt crank on the starter for about 1/2 second. I don't believe it is the starter or alternator as the vehicle will start if I use a jumper wire in place of the starting relay.

 

[Odrapnew]

Just recleaned the terminals and put the battery back in still no start. I then used a jumper wire to bypass the relay and the vehicle started but was throwing codes for Advance Trac, oil pressure, and other systems/sensors.

I used a test light and found that the ignition was sending a good signal to the starter relay but the relay itself has a very weak ground.

I'm going to check the chassis side ground cable and and the ground into the main fuse box and will update when finished.

I'm assuming you did, but did you confirm the cables on the solenoid are tight?

Sounds like the solenoid or its ground is bad.

Keep us posted.

 

[Pete Deering]

I have a 2014 Explorer that I purchase brand new and currently has about 88k miles.

Vehicle ran fine two Fridays ago while driving it four about 4 hours straight with multiple start/stops. The following Wednesday the vehicle ran fine for 2 short trips and a few start/stop cycles. Thursday a pressed the start button and all electrical worked fine but the vehicle would not crank. I was able to jump start the vehicle and as the battery was about 5 years old I decided to purchase a new battery. Installed the new battery this Monday and still no start. I charged the battery overnight just in case it wasn't fully charged from the factory. Today, I tried to start the vehicle again and it sounded stronger but still would not crank, it was more of a short burst and then power would cut off.

Currently, I can start the vehicle using jumper cables but only if the other vehicle is revved up to about 3k RPM, if the jumping vehicle is at idle I get no start.

I do have FORscan and did reset the battery management, still will not start.

At this point I'm at a lose for what to check next. I don't believe it is the starter as it starts everytime I put jumper cables on it. And I don't think it's the battery as it is brand new and when I watch the oscilloscope in FORscan the voltage is normal.

Does anyone have recommendations on where to look next? I did notice that there is a sensor that looks like an ammeter on the ground wires from the battery, would that cause a no start issue?

Some history on the vehicle - I've had numerous electrical components replaced under warranty due to motor failures so I always suspected the vehicle had major electrical issues. I've had three driver side mirrors, four passenger side mirrors, three rear hatch struts, one sunroof motor, and one sunshade motor all replaced.

Thanks for any advice.

Test for voltage at the starter!
1. Measure the battery voltage at the battery posts. Not from the connectors.
2. Measure the battery voltage at the battery connectors. Should be the same.
3. next. Clip your test lead on the positive stud on the starter and place your meter ground on the battery negative. Read the voltage. Should be the same. If not clean the connection.
4. Check the large ground wire on the starter housing.
5. Next Clip your test lead on the solenoid stud on the starter and place your meter ground on the battery negative. Try to start the car and read the voltage on the meter. Is it the same as in step 1 and 2. If not, you need a new starter. If there no voltage go to step 6.
6. Turn The ignition switch to the on position.
A. The message center on the bottom right on the dash cluster should show the digital display mileage ( if not, ecu problem). Also the PAT indicator should be flashing every 2 second, when the key off. When the key is in the on position, the PAT light should luminate, then go off, also at the same time, you should hear the PAT relay click in the dash by the glove box.

 

[thinkjerm]

Test for voltage at the starter!
1. Measure the battery voltage at the battery posts. Not from the connectors.
2. Measure the battery voltage at the battery connectors. Should be the same.
3. next. Clip your test lead on the positive stud on the starter and place your meter ground on the battery negative. Read the voltage. Should be the same. If not clean the connection.
4. Check the large ground wire on the starter housing.
5. Next Clip your test lead on the solenoid stud on the starter and place your meter ground on the battery negative. Try to start the car and read the voltage on the meter. Is it the same as in step 1 and 2. If not, you need a new starter. If there no voltage go to step 6.
6. Turn The ignition switch to the on position.
A. The message center on the bottom right on the dash cluster should show the digital display mileage ( if not, ecu probplem). Also the PAT indicator should be flashing every 2 second, when the key off. When the key is in the on position, the PAT light should luminate, then go off, also at the same time, you should hear the PAT relay click in the dash by the glove box.

1) Voltage at battery 12.48
2) Voltage at battery connector 12.48
3) voltage to starter stud 12.46
4) voltage from battery to ground on starter 12.45
5) voltage to solenoid 10.48

As this is push button I'm unable to try and start the car using the key. I tested the voltage at the solenoid by jumping the starter relay.


I'm going to replace the starter and see what happens.

Thanks for all of the help

 

[Mbrooks420]

Don’t replace the starter. You need to find why the voltage is low to the solenoid. A new starter won’t fix that.

 

[boominXplorer]

It's got to be a bad connection at the battery. Use sandpaper in the inside of the terminals to make sure its clean

 

[thinkjerm]

It's got to be a bad connection at the battery. Use sandpaper in the inside of the terminals to make sure its clean

I cleaned all of the connections at the battery. I do have a battery tester and have found some interesting things.

Battery tester connected:
(+)Terminal to (-)terminal - state of health (SOH) 100%
(+)Terminal to (-)connector - SOH 98%
(+)Connector to (-)terminal - SOH 98%
(+) connector to (-)chassis - SOH 68%
(+) Connector to (-)engine - SOH 1%

This was after I removed a cleaned the battery to chassis ground cables, chassis to transmission ground strap, chassis to engine ground, and the ground cables under the airbox (16gauge?? wires)

 

[Mbrooks420]

I’d stick with a standard ohm meter. Wiggle the cables hard, the main ones. Sometimes they get acid soaked up into the wire and rot out quite always from the terminals.

 

[Mbrooks420]

To test the ground cable connect an end to the negative battery terminal, and to the body of the starter. If this works, you surely have a ground issue. You can do the same with the positive, but you need to be a little more careful.

 

[peterk9]

...........................................

As this is push button I'm unable to try and start the car using the key. I tested the voltage at the solenoid by jumping the starter relay.


...........................................

If that is in response to Pete's suggestion to turn the key to ON, you can do the same thing with a push button start by just pressing the button once to put it into accessory mode.

Peter

 

[thinkjerm]

If that is in response to Pete's suggestion to turn the key to ON, you can do the same thing with a push button start by just pressing the button once to put it into accessory mode.

Peter

The reason I was stating that is because with a key you can hold it in the start position to turn the starter, with the keyless system it is not allowing the starter to continuously crank.

 

[Pete Deering]

The reason I was stating that is because with a key you can hold it in the start position to turn the starter, with the keyless system it is not allowing the starter to continuously crank

At this point in time, just remove the starter and tested with jumper cable on a different car battery. Ground cable too the body of the starter, and positive cable too the started stud. Does it spin? If It does, its not the starter. Don't uses the same battery. I just experience a bad battery. Read 12v , lights work, but the starter solenoid would not spin the starter. I had AutoZone test my battery and it fail. They also test starters.

 

[stuarto]

I second @thinkjerm

If you have jumper cables, run one from battery to starter and tap it on the terminal to see if you can manually spin the starter.
If it spins, starter is ok (good news). If it doesn't, bad news.
If it does spin, what I would do next it tap the jumper cable to the input to the solenoid. If starter runs then, then you know the starter is all good.

If you do these, let us know the results and let's go from there