4.0 SOHC Tapping noise w/video

[shelbygt]

I just replaced all of the timing components last week and had the heads freshened up after a hole in a combustion chamber leaked coolant into the cylinder. See thread ...http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271943

I noticed a slight tapping when I got it back together last week, but it seems to be getting a bit louder. It is on the right side of the engine (opposite side from the damaged head that pumped massive amounts of coolant though the engine and exhaust). If I put a screwdriver up to my ear and the motor, it is loudest on the right side exhaust manifold and catalytic converter. The noise is very faint on the block, reinforcement pan, valve covers and everywhere else in that area. To me it sounds like a lifter that went bad and the noise goes up and down with change in the rpms. The truck run great otherwise. Any ideas?
Thanks....
Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go9ohIyGna8

 

[BobWiersema]

Not Good

Thats not good. Do you have an old timing strobe light? Hook it up to any plug wire and pay attention to the strobe flash as the engine ticks. If you get one tick noise for every flash its top end noise. Two ticks per flash, bottom end noise. (did I get that right) This old trick works because the cam is turning at half the speed of the crank. So you get one flash for every one revolution of the cam and one flash for every two revolutions of the crank. This doesnt always work but it will give you a feel for engine rpms verses ticking noise.

That sounds like top end noise to me.

 

[shelbygt]

Thanks Bob,
I do have a timing light.
What is the correlation between when the plug wire gets power via the timing light to the noise from the tapping sound? Is this just to determine if the tapping is on the top or bottom end?

I suppose it is possible that a lifter went bad from when the machine shop cleaned the head and all the parts. I had a Probe with the exact same sound and it was a bad lifter(s), the only difference if the lifters would sometimes fill up and not tap as the rpms changed. But as I have found, it could be almost anything LOL. I have been second guessing that I tightened the lower right rear cassette (the inverted star bolt under the trans/engine spacer), but I put the screwdriver up to that part of the block and bell housing and the noise it faint.

I am going to pull the right valve cover and see if anything looks out of place, I wish I could run the motor with it off, but the oil would go everywhere.

 

[BobWiersema]

That old light trick is just to see if the sound is in sync with the light. If so, top end. I had a old Firebird that was banging so bad I thought it was a rod bearing. Some old guy showed me that trick and said "see, one bang per flash, its top end" and it was, I bent a push rod. But that does sound like top end noise to me. Probably a lifter, I didnt know those things ever went bad in a SOHC engine, they dont seam like they do much. Just a little nub sticking up out of the head. But they are hydraulic and you did pump some water through it.
Are you really going to take it apart again?

Rock Auto gets about $11. each for them.

 

[shelbygt]

I see... great tip!

I am pretty sure it is top end as well. The noise is most noticeable in the wheelhouse area, but this is probable due to resonance of the wheel opening.

I got a quart of water out of the oil pan that last round, so that water was everywhere. I did flush the engine with clean oil for 15 minutes and drained it, hoping that would take care of any left over coolant.

I have 2 options... pull the right valve cover and eliminate any loose parts (I didn't check after machine shop reassembled everything) or set the truck on fire.
I have no intention of going any further than that. I think pulling the lifter would require removing the head once again, so if that is the case, I will live with the sticking or faulty lifter.
Looks like Rock sells them only in a pack...my luck!

 

[BobWiersema]

I dont think you need to pull the head. You also shouldnt need to remove the cam. I have never pull a lifter on a SOHC but I would think just compress the valve, pull the follower out and yank out the lifter. It just sits in a hold in the head. In the assembly process they say to put the followers in last when doing the timing chains. Ill see if there is anything in sub components regarding lifters.

21 = Roller Follower (Not exactly a rocker arm)

24 = Hydraulic Lash Adjuster (Lifter)

 

[BobWiersema]

This crap from the service manual doesn't help much. But Ill post it for you anyway.

Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off—Valve Cover Removed

Check for damaged or severely worn parts and correct assembly. Make sure correct parts are used with the static engine analysis as follows.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off, Camshaft Roller Followers and Hydraulic Lash Adjusters, Overhead Camshaft

l Check for loose mounting bolts on camshaft carriers.

l Check for plugged oil feed in the camshaft roller followers, lash adjusters or cylinder heads.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off, Camshaft—Engines

l Check for broken or damaged parts.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off, Push Rods

l Check for bent push rods (6565) and restricted oil passage.


Valve Train Analysis—Valve Springs

l Check for broken or damaged parts.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off, Valve Spring Retainer and Valve Spring Retainer Keys

l Check for correct seating of the valve spring retainer key (6518) on the valve stem and in valve spring retainer (6514).

l Check for correct seating on the valve stem.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Off, Valves and Cylinder Head

l Check for plugged oil drain back holes.

l Check for worn or damaged valve tips.

l Check for missing or damaged guide-mounted valve stem seal.

l Check collapsed valve tappet gap.

l Check installed valve spring height.

l Check for missing or worn valve spring seats.

l Check for plugged oil metering orifice in cylinder head oil reservoir (if equipped).

Static checks (engine off) are to be made on the engine prior to the dynamic procedure.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Running

l Start the engine and, while idling, check for correct operation of all parts. Check the following:


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Running, Positive Rotator and Valve Spring Retainer Keys

l Check for correct operation of positive rotator.


Valve Train Analysis—Engine Running, Valves and Cylinder Head

l Check for plugged oil drain back holes.

l Check for missing or damaged valve stem seals or guide mounted valve stem seals.

l Check for a plugged oil metering orifice in the cylinder head oil reservoir (4.6L engine only).

If insufficient oiling is suspected, check oil passages for blockage, then accelerate the engine to 1,200 rpm with the transmission in NEUTRAL and the engine at normal operating temperature. Oil should spurt from the rocker arm oil holes such that valve tips and camshaft roller followers are well oiled. With the valve covers (6582) off, some oil splash may overshoot camshaft roller followers.

 

[shelbygt]

That helps!

It looks like the rocker/follower would have to be removed to be able to pull the lifter out.

I am going to read through the Haynes manual again and see what it says. Do you think if I find a loose rocker, that would be suspect, or would it not matter since there is no oil pressure on the lifter when the motor is not running?

 

[BobWiersema]

Followers and other strange animals

The lifters do hold oil when the engine is off. It takes a lot of force to push it back out. So if any followers feel loose, that could be the problem.

I did dig a little more in the Ford Service CD and found this, if it helps.

They make it sound so easy.

 

[shelbygt]

Going by the instructions above, you can run the motor with the valve cover removed. It looks like I need that tool to compress the valve in order to remove the lifter.

 

[BobWiersema]

Going by the instructions above, you can run the motor with the valve cover removed. It looks like I need that tool to compress the valve in order to remove the lifter.

Ya, like that wont some much. I dont think you can, because of the cam sensor. Some of those procedures refer to the push rod engine.

KD tools has a generic tool for overhead cam engines. But that ford one is probably cheaper. Its the last tool on this page.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdengi13.html

Found the ford tool, not exactly giving that thing away.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/OTC-7928.html
Hmmm, that doesnt look like the correct tool.

Take a look at this link. The correct tool number is the last one on the page, just a bit different then the first one on the page but a heck of price difference.
http://www.blazenauto.com/store/9-15707611-OTC-Brand-sr-1.html

Best price I found.
http://www.handsontools.com/Ford-Motorcraft-303-581-Valve-Spring-Compressor_p_20194.html

I would try and borrow one.

 

[shelbygt]

Luckily this is the side without the sensor. Problem is, I have to drain the coolant and remove the heater lines to pull the cover. In the Haynes book it says you can use the tool ($), or remove the cam (free).

I will see what I find and go from there. I hate not knowing...it drives me crazy!
Anyway to copy the Ford manual...is it on cd?

 

[BobWiersema]

Ebay

You could pull the cam. But you would still need the tool to put the cam back in. The Ford service manual clearly states to install the followers after the cam is installed and torqued.

Found one on flea bay....

It is the ford number, the guy must not know what its worth.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130380312654&viewitem=

Ill pm about that other stuff.

 

[shelbygt]

You could pull the cam. But you would still need the tool to put the cam back in. The Ford service manual clearly states to install the followers after the cam is installed and torqued.

Found one on flea bay....

It is the ford number, the guy must not know what its worth.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130380312654&viewitem=

Ill pm about that other stuff.

I saw that one on Flea Bay too.. lol

In the Haynes manual it says the lash adjusters and rocker arms go on, then the cam and bearing caps.

 

[montegun]

i had a similiar noise from thar same area in my 01 sport turned out to be the timing chain tensioner
30 minute fix

 

[shelbygt]

i had a similiar noise from thar same area in my 01 sport turned out to be the timing chain tensioner
30 minute fix

It's a brand new Ford replacement in there. One week old. I wish it was that easy! LOL

 

[BobWiersema]

It's a brand new Ford replacement in there. One week old. I wish it was that easy! LOL

Dont laugh it could have crapped out.

check you PM I sent you the links.

 

[shelbygt]

Dont laugh it could have crapped out.

check you PM I sent you the links.

I laugh because that would be too easy for me. Everything I do with this thing is a fiasco. Plus I threw the old ones away, so I have to laugh, so I won't cry!

 

[BobWiersema]

In the Haynes manual it says the lash adjusters and rocker arms go on, then the cam and bearing caps.

That is absolutely wrong. Ill send you the ford procedure tomorrow. The followers go in last. You dont want any valves to open before the cams are timed. Too much risk of damage. Although I did read that in a updated procedure I think its dated 05. Could be Haynes doesnt have the updates.

 

[shelbygt]

Thanks again Bob.

When I watched the machine guy reassemble the head, the only tool he used was to compress the valve springs to put the valves back in. The cam went on last. Don't know if that is the correct Ford procedure though.