4wd not disengaging, brown wire mod no help

[Buckshot]

but I have an explorer, not an "expitidion"....

 

[maineframe]

i have just bought 93xlt 4x4 maunal shift i hooked. The flaw is that the automatic 4x4 is not engage i can do alot of work under the shade tree need to know were to begain or if better to leave it to the experts i would like to know what is the maintance on the 4x4 hub or axle maintanceto see if it will engage of not

 

[snocross1985]

in regards to maineframe's post: WTF?

 

[Buckshot]

Mainframe - like to help you, but we don't understand your question. Try clearing it up a little, and preferably in your own thread....

Note: "Articulation" is more than just how much your wheels move up and down.

 

[gijoecam]

Well my line of thinking is that the front drivetrain is 100% always locked, so if you have sand somewhere in you axle/diff you may be experiencing some binding because of it.

Altough I still think it is the transfercase myself, it would help to isolate out the rest of your front drivetrain and do the inevitable cleanup work that needs to be done anyways to keep it in good running order after a little sand expitidion

Indeed, while it's probably not a bad idea I highly doubt that sand anyplace other than the transfer case could cause the problem he's having.

-Joe

 

[GJarrett]

Buckshot, yes I HAVE had the exact problem that you have, but everyone is remembering the wrong thing. My brown wire mod problem was a result of a short in the wiring I did and as you figured out has nothing to do with your problem.... however, your problem DID happen to me.

Do a search for "Herc Tour" and read about my adventure back in the fall of 2001 when I took a long wheeling vacation. While staying with Ray Lobato and finishing up my wheeling adventure in northern California and meeting several other members for a run there, a very wrong sound popped in my Explorer while in a rock garden at Frank Raines trails. When I got off the trail, I could not disengage my 4wd. I struggled back to Ray's home and we spent most of the next day trying to diagnose and fix the problem - I had a 2,500 mile trip back to Texas and that's a long way to fight 4wd on pavement. We did all the things you've tried to no avail and I finally removed my front driveshaft to get home.

I never could get it disengaged after returning to Texas and finally realized that it had to be an internal problem within the tcase itself - no amount of disconnecting/changing wires and electronics would disengage it. I bought a used tcase from a wrecking yard in Amarillo - I actually drove roundtrip from Dallas to Amarillo to get it from a member on this site since I couldn't find one in Dallas - and swapped it out. Upon moving to South Carolina the next month, I opened up my original tcase and found out that I could not get the actual gear/clutch to move at all - it was "welded" in place on the shaft and no amount of coersion or banging with a small sledgehammer would get it back loose. I have since heard that the magnetic clutch slides the assembly via some sort of ball bearing type of arrangement using three large balls, or something like that. My only theory I can come up whith is that somehow those balls got wedged or ground into the shaft and permanently locked it up. I can't tell for sure though because it locked up so thoroughly that I was never able to pull it apart to find out.

Unfortunately you may have to do what I did and swap your tcase out. Your other option will be to open it up and replace the innards that have locked up on you, but I have no idea where you could obtain those parts; it may be easier to simply find a complete tcase. I have read OperaHouse's posts in my brown wire problem thread that others have mentioned here and he sounds like he may know how to obtain the parts.

 

[DeRocha]

in regards to maineframe's post: WTF?

I have parsed MainFrame's post through a universal translator:

I have just bought 93xlt 4x4 with a standard transmission. The problem with my ride is the electronic 4x4 system is not working. I’m an avid do-it your selfer and will tackle this project (but need to know where to begin or should I let a shop have this one?)...

Ok MainFrame, Welcome to the site. You'll find tons of info here, but you need to use the search feature and look for it.. Your particular problem is very common and has been discussed in Many threads. I'll get you pointed in the correct direction. Shift Motor problem Shift Motor Rebuild

 

[gijoecam]

Thanks Gerald. That certainly confirms what I've been suspecting all along. Basically, if disconnecting power to the clutch doesn't disengage it, it's pretty safe to say it's a transfer case problem. It's good to know that at least one other person has experienced this problem on here, and I'm sure that as the miles pile up on these transfer cases, there will certainly be more cases of this.

Is there any chance you've still got it laying around and are willing to part with it for the sake of a write-up? You could have all the parts back, but I'd LOVE to take it apart to see what makes it tick, and I'd be happy to take tons of pictures in the process for the greater good of the site.

-Joe

 

[maineframe]

Simple where do you start trouble shooting my 1993 explorer xlt 4x4 will not work.

 

[Buckshot]

Thanks everyone for the help! GJarrett - I have read the herc tour report....but was in denial because I didn't want that to be the problem.

I think I found the culprit though. The seal around where my front driveshaft goes into the tcase has a hole in it large enough for me to stick my finger into the transfer case. Don't know if I hit a stick in the creek or if the hole was already there, but I think my t-case is now full of sand. The fluid that came out was sludge. I was hoping that with new fluid I could get the clutch to release, but it doesn't look like it. Now the question is whether to swap in another 4405, a 1354, or an Atlas.

Anything special I should be aware of when removing the front driveshaft? Just in case the tcase ISNT shot, do I need to plug the hole while driving around? This is my DD after all.


I'll be dropping the Tcase to take to the shop as a first step and will take some pictures once its apart to bring this thread to a close.

Again - thanks everyone!

 

[GJarrett]

As I recall, the front driveshaft connects to the 4405 via a u-joint.... I removed the driveshaft from the ujoint and left the ujoint in the tcase, so there was no need to worry about plugging a hole. However it sounds like you've already got one, and yes if you punched a hole in there and got sand in between the shaft and the bearings, it would make perfect sense that it got locked up.

Joe, sorry, but I threw the old tcase away. I wanted to keep it at the time, but I had moved into a small apartment with no storage and it was on my balcony leaking fluid. My apt mgr strongly suggested that I remove it or get kicked out, so I obliged. I have also since wished I had it to experiment with myself but it's long gone.

 

[gijoecam]

Yeah, grit and water in the oil is generally not a good thing. The religious seal (i.e. the hole-y one) could definately have been the ingress point.

We need MUCHO pictures of the guts when it comes apart. I'd LOVE to see what makes it work. I just don;t want to take my perfectly good one apart just yet. (and I've got gremlins of my own to deal with anyways!)

-Joe

 

[TPLYNCH]

Simple where do you start trouble shooting my 1993 explorer xlt 4x4 will not work.

See the links in DeRocha's post above. On first Gen Ex's, majority of all 4x4 problems are related to shot Auto Hubs or dirty T/Fcase shift motors. Most do it yourselfers can do the repairs necessary to fix the common problems.

 

[GJarrett]

Joe, you'll be a little disappointed in pictures of the innards. It really looks very simply designed, just a simple movable gear moving up and down a shaft via a worm gear. As i recall, the magnetic clutch looked like a donut around the shaft, similar to what a torque converter looks like. when you open the thing up all you're looking at is about four or five parts to the whole thing. When I looked at it I got the same feeling as when I field-stripped an Uzi once - no wonder an Uzi is reliable, there's nothing in it to go wrong.... just a coilspring surrounded rod with a metal breechface sliding on it that slams against a rubber stopper.... I remember looking at the Uzi and thinking, where's the rest of it?, lol..... it's got about $20 worth of parts in it but sells for a gazillion hundred dollars because it's a machine gun.

 

[gijoecam]

Joe, you'll be a little disappointed in pictures of the innards. It really looks very simply designed, just a simple movable gear moving up and down a shaft via a worm gear. As i recall, the magnetic clutch looked like a donut around the shaft, similar to what a torque converter looks like. when you open the thing up all you're looking at is about four or five parts to the whole thing. When I looked at it I got the same feeling as when I field-stripped an Uzi once - no wonder an Uzi is reliable, there's nothing in it to go wrong.... just a coilspring surrounded rod with a metal breechface sliding on it that slams against a rubber stopper.... I remember looking at the Uzi and thinking, where's the rest of it?, lol..... it's got about $20 worth of parts in it but sells for a gazillion hundred dollars because it's a machine gun.

LOL aren't most guns that way?

I can see from the exploded diagram in the manual that it's not overly complex, but what I can't see from the diagram is what moves and clamps what to who to transmit the power to the front wheels, and then why it doesn't readily grenade itself when you are accelerating at WOT on a moderately slippery surface (i.e. full throttle power application).

It's the morbidly fascinated engineer in me.... that and I have a lot of spare time at work.

-Joe

 

[Buckshot]

...when you open the thing up all you're looking at is about four or five parts to the whole thing. When I looked at it I got the same feeling as when I field-stripped an Uzi once - no wonder an Uzi is reliable, there's nothing in it to go wrong....

So what's Ford's excuse?

Update: Definitely the transfer case....looks like I blew the rear seal too. After the flush and fill over the last week I find ATF sprayed all over the undercarriage. Drives ok, little sluggish, but will have time to drop the case this weekend. I also dropped the front driveshaft to stop tearing up the front end on dry pavement in the meantime. So now I suspect that I blew the rear seal, lost all the fluid and this is what cause the freeze inside the tcase.

Looks like I was wrong about the front seal though....the seal that is broken is in the housng for the end of the driveshaft. I'm not sure but it looks as though there is a balljoint type of connection rather than a single or double u-joint where the flange attaches to the t-case. It is this joint that has a seal broken. The transfer case itself looks fine at the front flange connection.

I know I keep promising pics....uploading now...

 

[Buckshot]

How I got stuck

 

[Buckshot]

pics of front drive shaft

What is this seal? And what's behind it? How do I service it?

 

[n3m3s1s]

sweet pic, you def need a locker
is your tcase garbage now?
whats the word on an atlas?
why are most of your threads closed?
um..um..um...thats all for now.

 

[Buckshot]

I don't know why the threads are closed...maybe because of the way they were moved around when the site got rearranged?
The tcase is frozen in full time 4wd. Anyone need a 4WD Control-Trac case that thinks its a AWD case? Cost of shipping and a case of beer before I decide to open it up and post pics for posterity.
My Atlas which I ordered with a driveline e-brake, 4.3:1 gears, and the cable-driven twin stick shifters is OVERDUE which means it will not be in for testing at Badlands this weekend. :fire:
If anyone else orders an Atlas, add 1-2 weeks to the ETA. But, on the plus side - Jesse at High Angle Driveline is GREAT to work with.

Post more after the @#$@$# parts come in!