5r55e 98 4.0 sohc explorer lost reverese and third

[kjgces]

many of you have seen my previous posts, so you know i have been working on this beast for a while. well, after another long night under the truck, this is where i am. i now have no reverse and it wont shift up into third . it will drive in manual 1 and 2, i have done pressure readings and they are ALL low. i have rebuilt the valve body, installed a superior shift kit, installed an external filter, cleaned the radiator cooler and the external cooler with kooler kleen. i have installed a BRAND new EPC. no codes(that my reader will read). no blinking od light. have engine braking. bonded gaskets. ford blowoff valve. replaced servos and springs. i can drop the pan in my SLEEP. OK, you also know i'm an engineer and I DO NOT believe that all engineers are right all the time, if they were we would need this forum. I have searched high and low to find a full diagram and logic of this stupid computer and transmission. none found that link everything together, only bits and pieces. NOW, what do i do. I have even lost 912.00 to a scammer on ebay for a new transmission. right now there is only one thing i can think of. ASSUMING there is a "connection" (either hydraulic or logic)between reverse and third BEING shift solenoid two( the one next to the EPC) do you think SS2 could be "not turning on electrically. The solenoids are ALL normally open, so.. they vent the hydraulic pressure(fliud) out thru the center of the electric end of the valve. here is the idea. in the manual settings of gears, these solenoids "may" be used differently than when in the "drive" mode. I'm sure they are but again without a complete diagram we are guessing. IF it is not turning on it will blow off system pressure all the time, which i have. yes, i tested all the solenoids when the vb was out. all were fine with the electrical tests. no, i od not have a way to test it in operation. MAYBE the elctrical circuitry to CLOSE the solenoid and block the venting(which is what happens when it is energized ) is fault but how can you tell, this is so frustrating. please add any helpful comments. i have used up ALL my patience for the third time on this piece of junk. ask or comment anything, i will respond asap. thanks, kjgces.

 

[kjgces]

ford tsb blowoff valve

do you think the ford blowoff valve could be the problem, it would lower all pressures if it wasnt holding properly. i moved the valve to the rebuilt body that i just installed.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Sorry to hear about your tranny...

I bought a ATSG service manual just to see if the information I and you are looking for was there and unfortunately I didn't find exactly what I wanted but this might help...

SS1 is on in all positions and gears but 4th and 5th...
SS2 is on in 3nd gear and manual 2nd...
SS3 is on in 2nd gear [OD on or off] and 5th gear...
SS4 is on in 4th gear with OD off and manual 1st...

For reverse gear the low/reverse band is applied...For third gear the intermediate band applies...

The forward clutch is on in all positions but park,reverse, and neutral...The front one way clutch is on hold during drive and overrunning on coast...

BTW, is the solenoid bracket holding the solenoids correctly and in the right groove.. Check this link Dead Link Removed and look at figures 5 and 6...

I ran across some info the other day that might help.. http://www.sonnax.com/tech-articles/TS6-BW-106-109.pdf

When you installed the seperator plate and valve body did you use guide pins or just the bolts? I usually use bolts too but I have seen a problem with the bolts pulling the plate from the vavlebody and causing a major leak...

 

[kjgces]

valve body

thanks for the info. i did see the sonnax info. it reacts exactly the same as before i rebuilt the valve body, exactly. it seems like i'm dumping pressure somewhere. i cant imagine that i made a mistake with the separator plate. i used pins to align the separator plate. the solenoid bracket is installed correctly, the solenoids are all installed completely into the bores. i'm thinking the ford tsb blowoff is blowing my fluid pressure. i have about half of the normal system pressure at idle in all gears. the epc is also brand new. i just cant figure it out. i could figure it out if i could get my hands on a hydraulic electrical schematic of the operation. i have one from an old pdf from "gears Magazine". it has the diagram i need but the file is poor and you cant read it. any other ideas. thanks, kjgces. also, let me know if you agree with this idea. "if" the trans works in manual 1ts and manual 2nd, then the internal hard parts are "OK". i think that is what i have been able to find out, the unit works in m1 and m2 then the hard parts are nor broken. if that is the case then it is a problem with a solenoid not switching on or off or the hydraulic circuit. The problem did not change one bit when i installed the rebuit vb so that means the sep plate and gaskets are good. the one i tool out showed no signs of damage.

 

[kjgces]

way to disable the epc for a test

FINALLY after hours of searching, I found a Russian website www.diakom.ru with a wiring diagram for the transmission. It appears that the pressure riser from the Superior shift kit is "probably" connected to the wrong wires. It shows which wires connect to the PCM, and what they do. Today I am going to disconnect the wire to the EPC for a test. It should elevate the system pressure, show if the EPC circuit is the problem, and if I have a leak in the blowoff valve. Another post I found said that an Explorer was having low system pressure, and the Ford factory rep disconnected the white wire going to the EPC. He then drove the truck for a short time, and reconnected the wire. All the shift problems were corrected. The idea is that the higher pressure flushed out the blowoff valve allowing it to reseat, and hold pressure. I'm trying it today. If it does fix it, I will have to open up the pan to rewire that pressure riser from Superior.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Any update to your tranny problems?

FINALLY after hours of searching, I found a Russian website www.diakom.ru with a wiring diagram for the transmission. It appears that the pressure riser from the Superior shift kit is "probably" connected to the wrong wires. It shows which wires connect to the PCM, and what they do. Today I am going to disconnect the wire to the EPC for a test. It should elevate the system pressure, show if the EPC circuit is the problem, and if I have a leak in the blowoff valve. Another post I found said that an Explorer was having low system pressure, and the Ford factory rep disconnected the white wire going to the EPC. He then drove the truck for a short time, and reconnected the wire. All the shift problems were corrected. The idea is that the higher pressure flushed out the blowoff valve allowing it to reseat, and hold pressure. I'm trying it today. If it does fix it, I will have to open up the pan to rewire that pressure riser from Superior.

I was wondering if you found any new solutions to the issues you were having with your transmission?

 

[kjgces]

tranny problems

yep, unfortunately, it is in the trans shop as well speak... i have a blown direct clutch (or so we think). a local shop with ta long time reputation in trans repairs helped me out quite a bit. i went there on friday and theguy who does the trans work spent a lot of time with me discussing the work i had done and all possible fixes. we test drive the truck with the high level scanner attached and a epc pressure gage. my fourth gear is actually the one that is out, not third as i had suspected. the trans shift so fast and (usually) smooth from 1 to 2 that i was mis-counting the gears. there is a huge pressure leak dropping my line pressure to about 65-75psi. and i have no epc pressure. with the scanner connected we were able to command different epc pressures to verify that my vb and solenoid work was working correctly but there is no electrical way of finding the lost line pressure. my reverse is also totally out, the only common piece between 4th and reverse is the direct clutch. again, i must stress that these guys were very good, reasonable and professional. they believe the direct cluch is either blown out out or there is a serious leak in the internal portion of the trans, not in the vb. they said, hey, if you want to remove it we will open it and see what we find before we fix it or you can do it yourslef, your call. well truth be told , i dont have the tools or the time to take out the trans etc etc. soooo. it is in their shop to get dropped and opened, they will call when they get it open and quoted me a price or 1400 if they find the worse case which would mean a complete overhaul. actually i'm quite satisfied with the quote ansd thei approach. i know a lot of guys on here are going to say poo poo on going to a shop for the repair but it is not a franchised shop and i have known about them and their trans work since i was a kid. long story short, if i wen there in the first place i would have saved in the long run, but hey, i love to fix things myself...this just got to be too much and i have 165k on the trans, i'm sure it can use some internal parts!! thanks for the interest, i'lll post back when it is complete, kjgces.

 

[ranger7ltr]

I hate that the rebuild had to happen...

I understand getting a trustworthy shop to fix the problem but still...

Since you found a good shop can you ask them a couple of questions about the shift events in this transmission? Especially what is happening during the 3-4 shift and why it flares... Actually if you could the shift event information for all gears that would be awesome...

I know I am still working on mine with the 3-4 flare and have a few new parts to install real soon... New seperator plate, zc and ab servos, and new epc, tcc, and shift solenoids...My external filter and cooler seem to be removing residual junk in the fluid before I do the repairs...or maintenance on the tranny...

I don't think an electrically controlled hydraulic unit is too complex for this engineer and since the rest of the transmission action is good I don't believe the 3-4 flare is a major deal... Only time will tell...

Good luck with the rebuild and I hope the rebuild is not too costly...

 

[kjgces]

re

I understand getting a trustworthy shop to fix the problem but still...

Since you found a good shop can you ask them a couple of questions about the shift events in this transmission? Especially what is happening during the 3-4 shift and why it flares... Actually if you could the shift event information for all gears that would be awesome...

I know I am still working on mine with the 3-4 flare and have a few new parts to install real soon... New seperator plate, zc and ab servos, and new epc, tcc, and shift solenoids...My external filter and cooler seem to be removing residual junk in the fluid before I do the repairs...or maintenance on the tranny...

I don't think an electrically controlled hydraulic unit is too complex for this engineer and since the rest of the transmission action is good I don't believe the 3-4 flare is a major deal... Only time will tell...

Good luck with the rebuild and I hope the rebuild is not too costly...

hi, from what i can tell, the 3-4 engagement is a combination of the intermediate band releasing and the direct clutch engaging, ok, most people know that part, but what i'm seeing is a reduction of pressure and volume in my hyd supply. since i have 65psi MAX in the line pressure the movements of the related components are slow and with little force. we think there is a large fliud leak coming from somewhere in the upper end of the unit to account for the line pressure being so low. the slipping in the system is what contributed to the wear on the cluches and then i get a domino effect.. it slips, you lose some pressure, it slips, you lose more pressure, it is now slipping enough to cause heat and wear which cause more of both, you get the idea. yes, a good engineer wont have any problems with this unit. i did all of the things you are going to do...vb, then another vb, replaced the servos(both) new servo springs. adjusted bands all over the place. installed the external filter, flushed out all the lines and the radiator cooler with dr tranny flush. installed pan drain.. as you can see i did ALL the stuff that was supposed to fix the problem. i thnknk it was a cascade of events to get to the slip and then it progressed thru my medling to a failed clutch. i aslo found out that my unit(and all i think) will skip second gear unless you are on the gas pedal pretty heavy. when we ran the scanner on the trans you could see the gears that the computer was selecting and it went from 1 to 3 then 4 and 5. but never got to 4. also, reverse is completely out now. one critical thing i saw in another article was "start believing in yourself", good idea for us engineers. i knoew i put the vb in correctly and the torque was right but i kept looking for advice and that can be misleading. when i took it apart the first time i had NO bad vb gaskets or anything lese that you could see visibly. all the parts in the vb were moving, nothing stuck...extremely dirty with the heavy gray paste that was everywhere. yeah,, i know what your thinking.... friction materials and steel. and that is exactly what all that stuff is. testing the pressures really opened my eyes. i also bought a one month subscription on eautorepairs.net. trust me, the best 15.00 i have ever spent on fixing a car. it has everything..drawings, diagnosis, printable info, everything. i also found a tsb on the oil level on the trans dipstick, very interesting. the tsb says that the normal operating temp oil level is ABOVE what the marks say on the stick. let me see if can paste a part of it here...i think this is very telling of this whole mess MAYBE, we arae all running these units low on fluid MOST of the time and that is causing the high wear rate of the internal parts, seems to fit perfectly. it wont let me copy the views but the tsb number is 99-5-3. it says the cold level of the fliud should be between the two holes in the dipstick and the hot level will be from the high hole to within the crosshatch area. the tsb mentions that the fluid fill from the factory is incorrect. most people would "assume: it is correct, wouldn't bother with it for a few years and shazam, shifting problems at 30-50k miles, wow what a coincidence. let me know if i can help. i will post what they find, i hope it is what we think, just for sanity sake. kjgces. just did a google on "tsb 99-5-3" and it is the correct number. try it, good luck.

 

[kjgces]

3-4 shift

here is another revelation, when it shifts from 3 to 4 the intermediate band releases and the direct clutch comes in...the direct drum is the outside part of the direct clutch. soo.... i dont see how you can have it without a flare, actually, the nomial shift gives a flare of about 250rpm. but if you look at a worn trans, the intermediate servo is worn and or slow. the direct clutch frictions are worn so they react a little slow and the direct clutch apply is going to be slow since the pressures are down a little and the frictions are slipping. a perfect situation for a flare!

 

[rastt1]

hallo
my names Rasto
Iam slovak and I little speak anglish
Ihave problem with my trans 5R55E
Irebuilt this trans.and all times dont work OD and manual 1.werry slip werry little go
2 and 3 OD and 2 manual go 80% but slip
4,5 and R is ok
OD dont blinking
nine tenths is new Ihave rebuilt converter
it looks like low pressure to 1 clutch
Have you some pressure scheme
This is my job about 3 month

thank you.

 

[kjgces]

for rasto

Hello Rasto in slovakia.
On the transmission there are two 1/8pipe thread ports.

One on the driver side for line pressure. this is near the electrical connector on the transmission

One on the passenger side for EPC pressure. this one is near the rear of the transmission and very hard to reach.

Here i what they should read if all is normal.

at idle rpm
position line EPC
P 75-105 psi 22-32 psi
N 75-105 psi 22-32 psi
1,2,D 93-123 psi 39-49 psi
R 102-132 psi 55-65 psi

full throttle stall
position line EPC
R 282-350 psi 112-134 psi
1,2,D 228-263 psi 112-134 psi

you will need 4 feet of hose with a 1/8 male pipe thread on the end attaching to the transmission port. the other end will need a pressure gage with 0-400 psi. let me know what you find. good luck...

 

[rastt1]

thanks
line pressure is ok 145psi Ihave new pump

 

[ranger7ltr]

So how did your repair shop experience turn out?

yep, unfortunately, it is in the trans shop as well speak... i have a blown direct clutch (or so we think). a local shop with ta long time reputation in trans repairs helped me out quite a bit. i went there on friday and theguy who does the trans work spent a lot of time with me discussing the work i had done and all possible fixes. we test drive the truck with the high level scanner attached and a epc pressure gage. my fourth gear is actually the one that is out, not third as i had suspected. the trans shift so fast and (usually) smooth from 1 to 2 that i was mis-counting the gears. there is a huge pressure leak dropping my line pressure to about 65-75psi. and i have no epc pressure. with the scanner connected we were able to command different epc pressures to verify that my vb and solenoid work was working correctly but there is no electrical way of finding the lost line pressure. my reverse is also totally out, the only common piece between 4th and reverse is the direct clutch. again, i must stress that these guys were very good, reasonable and professional. they believe the direct cluch is either blown out out or there is a serious leak in the internal portion of the trans, not in the vb. they said, hey, if you want to remove it we will open it and see what we find before we fix it or you can do it yourslef, your call. well truth be told , i dont have the tools or the time to take out the trans etc etc. soooo. it is in their shop to get dropped and opened, they will call when they get it open and quoted me a price or 1400 if they find the worse case which would mean a complete overhaul. actually i'm quite satisfied with the quote ansd thei approach. i know a lot of guys on here are going to say poo poo on going to a shop for the repair but it is not a franchised shop and i have known about them and their trans work since i was a kid. long story short, if i wen there in the first place i would have saved in the long run, but hey, i love to fix things myself...this just got to be too much and i have 165k on the trans, i'm sure it can use some internal parts!! thanks for the interest, i'lll post back when it is complete, kjgces.

Yes I am curious to know what was found as the problem and what it took to correct it for you...Since I got a new pan, it will be going on in place of the old pan.. This one, however, has both a drain plug and a temperature sensor installed in it.. The new pan is going on this week as well as the new EPC solenoid...I also have new intermediate and od servos to install but I want to see if and what the EPC solenoid does for me...

My 3-4 flare seems to be related to the soft 1-2 ans 2-3 shifts in the tranny unless I am on the throttle hard then the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are pretty firm...I am thinking that the shift softness and the flare are due to low EPC and/or line pressures and the flare is either that the servo is letting fluid leak past it and not staying firmly in place or the pressure is lower than it should be and not engaging the direct clutch as the servo releases...And I am running the pressures before and after as well this week too..

I am also dealing with a rust in the gas tank problem too but that is another story by itself!!!

 

[rastt1]

This is good scheme I cant if help you.
http://tombirch.com/1/ppt/2.ppt