A4LD 1st 2nd And Reverse Work, No Fluid Pumping To Cooler.

[Bulldozer]

A4LD 1st 2nd And Reverse Work, No 3rd or 4th.

So I just replaced my A4LD with a junkyard trans that had been recently rebuilt. Upon the first installation we mis-stabbed the torque converter and broke the inner pump gear.
Took it all apart, swapped in the pump gear from my old trans, took it to a shop to have them align the pump and he confirmed the pump was working and good to go. I bolted it all back up threw on a new torque converter (definitely properly seated this time!) and reinstalled the trans.

I added 1/2 a qt. of fluid to the TC before installation. The transmission was completely drained before installation, and I put in a new filter, new cooler and lines, new governor etc.

Before starting the truck I added 5qts. of fresh fluid and started it up, let it run for a couple minutes, fluid was barely on the dipstick so I added 1 more qt, it got up almost to the bottom of the hash marks, so I added another, all the sudden its 2 inches above the mark on the dipstick.

I cycled it through all the gears slowly with the rear wheels off the ground and everything was looking okay, except the fluid level would not drop at all, I thought this was strange as a dry trans should take 10-12 I've read. So I take it for a quick test, Reverse works perfect. If I put it in D or OD it feels like its taking off in 2nd but will NOT even try to shift to 3rd. If I manually select 1st it works, manually shift to 2nd, goes right in, but I manually shift it to D or OD and its like neutral. I probably drove it for a total of 5 minutes and the fluid temp never got over 100F, but the level never dropped.

SO I decided I would check if the pump was running,pulled the cooler "Pressure side" line and a couple ounces of fluid came out, I stuck it in a clear bottle and started the truck for a minute, NOTHING.

This makes no sense to me. Is it possible that the pump failed after a couple minutes but somehow some gears still work? Could there be a different problem? Maybe something wrong in the valve body or I somehow screwed up the the filter o-rings?

I'm praying I don't have to do this job a 3rd time.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys.


Oh one other thing, I reused the Bellhousing to pump and bellhousing to trans gaskets if that makes any difference.

 

[wood1]

You go the 4x4 filter no doubt, it is different than the 2wd, removed the old o ring and put the new one on the new filter...

Did you half fill the converter before installing it?

Put a pressure gauge on the thing and see what you have. It simply wouldn't drive without an operating pump.

Did you clean the cooler lines out before installing the new trans? If the original grenaded it would have filled the cooler and lines with garbage and if you didn't clean it properly (and use a new converter) that garbage will screw your new transmission in short order.

 

[Bulldozer]

You go the 4x4 filter no doubt, it is different than the 2wd, removed the old o ring and put the new one on the new filter...

Did you half fill the converter before installing it?

Put a pressure gauge on the thing and see what you have. It simply wouldn't drive without an operating pump.

Did you clean the cooler lines out before installing the new trans? If the original grenaded it would have filled the cooler and lines with garbage and if you didn't clean it properly (and use a new converter) that garbage will screw your new transmission in short order.

Thanks for the reply, the filter was certainly for the 4x4, it was a motorcraft microfelt unit and came with 2 new o rings which I installed, also checked to make sure the old o-rings came off and weren't stuck in the VB.

I put 1/2Qt. of fluid into the TC, as this was the recommendation by the manufacturer.

Also I did clean the metal lines out very thoroughly with fluid and compressed air, the rubber pieces are new, the cooler is new, and I bypassed the radiator because I figured it was filled with contaminated fluid.

I will have to get a hold of a pressure gauge. One strange thing is that I tried blowing into the cooler lines last night and the bottom one going into the trans seems like its totally blocked, so I'm gonna pop the lines back off when I get a chance tonight and see if something somehow got in there.

Also, there are no leaks anywhere, and the vacuum modulator line is not full of fluid.

 

[wood1]

Sounds like you know what you are doing for sure. The bottom line is the feed line for the cooler I believe while the top is the return to the pan. It's not surprising that you can't blow into that circuit, fluid comes from the converter to the converter clutch solenoid/valve then to the cooler feed line.

 

[Bulldozer]

Sounds like you know what you are doing for sure. The bottom line is the feed line for the cooler I believe while the top is the return to the pan. It's not surprising that you can't blow into that circuit, fluid comes from the converter to the converter clutch solenoid/valve then to the cooler feed line.

Thank you, That's a valuable bit of information. I'll post up tonight after I try a few things. It'll be interesting to see what the fluid level will be now that the TC should be totally drained.

 

[mr_valingo]

If i remember correctly, when i swapped my 4r55e out (i aslo broke the pump) i was able to blow into both lines. I know the output line for sure. I also tried sucking on it to "prime" it, tranny fluid does not taste good

 

[Bulldozer]

Okay so I found that a very slight drizzle of fluid will come out of the cooler line if I let it run for a couple minutes. I'm pretty convinced the pressure is way too low.

Anybody know a good place to get a gauge? In store somewhere would be preferred but online is okay too.

I'm thinking a VB rebuild/shift kit is in order, if that doesn't do the trick I'm going to trash this pile and put a rebuilt c4/c5 in.

 

[wood1]

Don't the 4R/5R have thermostatically bypassed coolers? No flow until up to temp? You should get good steady flow from the cooler line at idle. Glacier has a thread on pressure testing the A4. I followed his thread on rebuilding my VB and had excellent results.

 

[mr_valingo]

Definately fluid flow on the 4r. Approx 1qt a minute.

 

[Bulldozer]

I managed to borrow pressure gauge tonight

Pressures seem spot on.
Idle P,N,1,2,D,OD are all around 62psi
Reverse is about 85

at WOT:
Reverse is just shy of 300, All other gears were 230ish, during the WOT test the needle seems to fluctuate really fast, not sure if this is normal. It is not a liquid filled gauge and there was a tiny leak at the transmission fitting if that makes a difference.

I am getting fluid pumping at the cooler now, doesn't seem like as much as I expected, but I don't have much to go by.

I noticed the dipstick basically cannot give an accurate reading after adding fluid, I drained most of the fluid so I could get a more accurate fill, but even with it almost empty, fluid would still show up on the dipstick in the hashed area and above, even if the bottom inch or so was bone dry. = What a joke.

Anyway I progressively filled it up until the dry spot on the dipstick went away then added some more to be safe. The dipstick LOOKS like its reading way overfilled but after a 10ish minute test drive getting the fluid up to 160F, nothing was coming out of the vent tube and the fluid wasn't foaming. from near empty I added a total off 9 qts.

Another thing I found is that if I start in D or OD, it takes off in 1st, wont shift to 2nd until I manually go down to 2, then if I manually shift to D, it goes back to 1st, but it seems like there is no engine braking whatsoever.

Strangely, this is near exactly how my old transmission behaved, so I'm wondering if this governor is sticking (even though it's brand spanking new straight from the stealership). When I assembled the governor I put a very light coating of high temp grease on the piston/bore, could this be a problem? It seemed to move freely before installation.

If anybody's got any tips on how to further diagnose this, I'd really love to hear it.

Thanks guys, this site is a huge help!

 

[wood1]

Did you adjust the bands?

Did you adjust the kickdown cable and does the linkage seem to work freely.

Did you use a new modulator? If not I would replace it, they are cheap. Make sure it's for the A4 and not the C-3, they almost look identical and using a C-3 modulator can cause high shift points, cause the converter to not fill after overhaul (sound familiar?) and cause high line pressures.

You have a copy of the ATSG manual? It's available in pdf in the sticky section. There is a diagnosis area in it.

Check that you have proper vacuum supply to the modulator and that it hasn't failed. I would replace it in any case to rule out it causing any issues. Pretty cheap.

Conduct a proper fluid cooler flow check. Connect a hose to the cooler return line and hook it to a funnel feeding back into the dipstick tube. In neutral says the manual (although Park is hydraulically the same, it just engages the park prawl) run the engine idle up to 1000 rpm and watch the flow until all the air is bled out of the line and the flow is solid. There should be "liberal" flow. I'm going from memory from 6 or so years back but I think it was along the lines of a quart per minute as Valingo said his 4R was. If you think you have reduced flow I would check it at the fitting on the transmission feeding the cooler to be sure there isn't any restrictions in the cooler circuit. If there is a problem with the flow that can point to low pump output, main circuit leakage (probably a VB gasket etc), stuck converter relief valve which would point to a VB issue.

I used this method to flush my transmission after I had rebuilt the VB and replaced the governor. So it would have been with the Sonnex boost valve and VB modifications outlined by Glacier.

I'm going to suggest you rebuild the VB or replace it with a rebuilt unit from Central. They guarantee their work and their VB's are tested. Sounds as though you could handle rebuilding it yourself, Glacier has a nifty thread (it's a sticky) that I followed when I did my own several years ago. The modifications done result in a quicker shift with less overlap. Sonnex has, among other nice improvements, a manual valve indexer which will help prevent burning of the clutch pack, boost valve with o rings, end plugs with o rings... They also have a heavier 35 mm governor replacement weight (a little lower rpm shift) and there is a small return spring included for the governor in one of the two shift kits Glacier uses. The TransGo kit has amazing instuctions, very detailed diagram.

This would be a great time to replace the o ring on the low/reverse servo with an upgraded one too.

I find myself wondering if you have a VB gasket blow-out. If you decide to remove it to check why not rebuild it?

I also made my own external filter set-up using a hydraulic filter head and some rubber transmission grade hose. It's in line with the cooler and removes all that fine crap that gums up VB's and governors. I think it was like 30 bucks for everything to do it. It just takes a big oil filter or hydraulic filter. Another great idea that I took from someone on here...

Lastly, I don't think a bit of grease on the governor would cause issues but vaseline is what you want to use as assembly lube, not grease. The grease might be too thick to be washed out of small areas by the fluid. When you pull your governor to change the weight and add the little spring (hint hint) when you are rebuilding the VB you can check it and throw some vaseline on it.

I also noticed that the cooler feed line has a spring and what appears to be a check ball in there. No wonder you couldn't blow into it.

The pan fluid level issues have me a bit baffled. Could you tried to check the level too quickly after pouring fluid in and that caused fluid to show on the dipstick above the crosshatch? I usually wait several minutes after adding fluid before checking it.

Question for you, did you install a temp gauge? What gauge did you use if so and how did you do it?

Best of luck! Keep us posted.

 

[Bulldozer]

Thanks for all the tips, Wood! I dont have time to write a decent reply right now, but basically I'm going to go through the troubleshooting steps in the ATSG manual and probably check on the governor, replace the modulator and rebuild the VB.

Concerning the fluid level, I'm convinced there is residual fluid collecting inside the tube after adding, and since the tube has a bend in it the dipstick touches the tube on the way down and gets covered in fluid. Maybe if I give it a day and check again it'll be more accurate.

Thanks again, your input is truly appreciated.

 

[wood1]

You caught me home with the flu so I figured I'd do some reading for you. Hope it helps.

 

[Bulldozer]

Good news! I replaced the modulator and the transmission is shifting through all gears on the jack stands. It feels like it shifts fast and hard and doesn't shift to 2nd until like 30mph so right now I'm waiting for it to cool off to adjust the modulator and see where that gets me. Also going to adjust the bands tomorrow, I need to get (or borrow) a 1/4" torque wrench. Oncr I secure one of those I can re-torque the VB bolts also.


Does it make a difference if that trans is warm or cold for adjusting the bands?

 

[wood1]

Sounds promising, makes no difference if it's hot or cold or at least I have never seen it mentioned. Hope that fixes it. You should rebuild the VB anyway, the improvements will make your tranny last a lot longer. Consider the filter too, you can just buy an inline filter from a trans shop cheap and throw it in. Dirt in the VB/gov will cause problems eventually.

 

[Bulldozer]

Sounds promising, makes no difference if it's hot or cold or at least I have never seen it mentioned. Hope that fixes it. You should rebuild the VB anyway, the improvements will make your tranny last a lot longer. Consider the filter too, you can just buy an inline filter from a trans shop cheap and throw it in. Dirt in the VB/gov will cause problems eventually.

The VB/shift kit is in the plan, i'll look into a filter too!

Sorry to hear (er...read) about your case of the flu, I hope you're feeling better.

Hopefully the bands will take care of it but if not at least I have narrowed it down a bit with your help.

 

[Bulldozer]

Just ran across this old thread:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148813

Basically exact same problem I'm having and it turned out to be the governor. Sounds promising.


(Sorry for the double post.)

 

[Bulldozer]

Finally got around to pulling the governor, looks like some idiot (me) put the spring on the wrong side of the valve. LOL

I'll put it back together tomorrow and report back about how it goes.

 

[wood1]

He he he... been there.

 

[wood1]

How'd you make out?