A4LD rebuild for the poor man (or lady).

[K80]

List of Failures and Shortcommings:

Well, this is, as best as I can hope, a short list.

1. End-play. Though Glacier was kind enough to send me a caliper with which to measure end-play, I have at this time elected not to perform this check because even when (not if) the end-play turns out to be WAY too wide, I can't do anything about it in the foreseeable future due to a lack of credit cards, money or time. I can't afford to buy any washers, and can less afford the wait for them to get here. While I can estimate just how far off the end-play is by figuring the difference between the thrust washer I removed and its' replacement, there's nothing I can do about it. The difference between the old No. 4 washer(a "C") and the new one(a "3") is about .9 mm.
Given a tolerance of .3 to .5 mm for the end-play, this gap is two to three times that tolerance. Not good, but(I hope) not catastrophic.

2. Extension housing continuous spring thingy: When I dug out the ext. housing seal to replace it, I irrevocably damaged a part that was lodged beneath the seal. It looks like a continuous spring that lines the inside bore at the tail-end of the ext. housing right below the seal seat. I have no clue what this thing is or what purpose it may serve. As I look in the Ford book on my computer, it is not identified anywhere. I looked all over the web, and can find no mention of this part anywhere. I am forced to conclude either 1: It was never supposed to be there in the first place(not likely) or 2: It was part of the old seal and never intended to be considered as a separate part.

So there's the list of failures and shortcomings. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Phager]

That sounds like the garter spring, they're built into most seals and is there to ensure a leak proof seal. If you got a new seal for it, it should be in the new seal.

 

[Glacier991]

Katie, he's exactly right.... it is the inner guts of the seal, sweat it not....figure out what washer you need for end play and let me know, I'll send ya one. BTW that caliper is yours young lady. Don;t cut too many corners at the end to get it done.... you'll regret that later.

 

[K80]

Success (?)

The tranny is up and in. I put in a gallon and a half of dexIII ATF and it worked intermittently for a minute or two before the pump sucked the oil pan dry and things didn't work after that. So it's off to Western Union, the AAP store for ATF, DOT3 (still have that damn brake line from before to deal with..), and a bleeder kit. Then maybe taking that damn flaring tool back so I can get the MUCH better-built one they have at Sears. Will know for sure by tonight whether it's going to make it or not....
Confidence is high....

 

[cloaked_chaos]

I put in a gallon and a half of dexIII ATF and it worked intermittently for a minute or two before the pump sucked the oil pan dry

I ended up putting almost 3 gallons in my transmission and transfer case. I think the transmission itself holds 9 quarts, but I had forgotten to put a quart in the torque converter ahead of time.

 

[K80]

That sounds like the garter spring, they're built into most seals and is there to ensure a leak proof seal. If you got a new seal for it, it should be in the new seal.

Ahhh.....so we're not dead yet....lol

Katie, he's exactly right.... it is the inner guts of the seal, sweat it not....figure out what washer you need for end play and let me know, I'll send ya one. BTW that caliper is yours young lady. Don;t cut too many corners at the end to get it done.... you'll regret that later.

Well, in order to ascertain which washer I need, I will need to pull the tranny and go however long without driving just to take care of that. Getting that heavy, filthy monster up there on a Harbor Freight 2-ton El-Cheapo $20 jack with a board on that to cushion the tranny and allow for easier shifts in position is nonetheless HARD. It sucked. I will be washing the odorant in the ATF out of my hair for a week, and parts of me I didn't even know I had HURT LIKE HELL. I guess I'm just not as young as I used to be...though I'm under thirty, things are just not as easy as they used to be.
But before you go throwing rocks at my crappy paint job, allow me to extend this one placative promise: I will, at some date in the future (Very likely this Summner), Take this tranny back down and do it completely right. Some things will have to happen first:
1. I will need to get a power supply for my camcorder,
2. I will need to obtain an actual transmission jack, as the one I used is fine for getting it down, but no way in HELL am I trying to get that SOB back up with it.
3. I will have an engine block stand, just because it looks a LOT easier than a carpeted speaker box.
4. I will have a slider thingy I can use to move around on, because that would have saved me about three hours yesterday....lol
5, And finally, I will have either taller jackstands and a taller jack, or a set of ramps or all three. And a torque wrench that goes in ft.lbs. as well, because multiplying everything by 12 sucks when you realize the wrench only goes to 200 or so...so about 20 ft. lbs. Maybe I'll get a big wrench today at the pawn shop...they stumble across some decent tools sometimes.
Then of course I'll be sure to buy more ATF than I think I'll need, because there's no way I'll use less....LoL.

As for the washer, I will shoot you a line with those specs when I am able...Got a spare vertebral disk lying around with it? LoL

Thank you all for your help and input. You have made what would have been an un-certain and daunting project into something doable and even, maybe, perfectible. Shouts go to my folks, who have stood by me in everything I've ever done; a thing natural and yet priceless as a thousand stars. My hope is that someday, I'll be able to pass on all the kindness and warmth shed on me by you and others.

 

[Glacier991]

We are all here to make sure everyone succeeds. No Tranny DIY'er left behind. Get enough ATF in that baby and let us know how ya did !

ps. "Getting "old" ain't for sissies." Katherine Hepburn on her 90th Birthday.

 

[K80]

~Fin~

Well, Here's the shakedown:

1. The tranny works. In fact, it works better than it ever did since the folks who parked it for two years got screwed by the auto shop. I don't have to manually shift out of first (I'm still getting used to that...my right arm misses its' "manumatic") and the shifts are solid and smooth. The T.C. lockup is buttery smooth, as are all other points of this tranny's operation.

2. The only error is in how I installed the shift cable; because of the initial error, I had no first gear because the shift selector ran out of detents. I had been thinking my OD didn't work because, of course, it wasn't OD, it was neutral. But a fast adjustment fixed that. Cruising city roads in OD just plain sucks.

3. Before the tranny broke, I was averaging 23-25 m.p.g. city. Now I'm pushing 30.

4. I fixed my brakes for good by simply placing a new, pre-flanged brake line
where the old one was. My double-flange tool is still a cheap POS, however.


I have made two round trips to Topeka, as well as my ordinary daily driving. There are 300 fresh miles on the rebuilt tranny.
My father owes my mother fifty dollars because I got it fixed. You must understand my father. Some years ago, when my parents had decided to buy one tool a week to work on the family car, my father assumed the task of choosing what tool to get and when. His first choice, the first tool he bought for the car, was a hammer.
A ball-peen hammer.
Such is my lineage
Anyhow, I guess that's it. Glacier, I haven't forgotten about you. Your alignment tool, extension, and socket will be on their way to you on Friday the 20th. That's when my roommate gets paid.
Again, thank you all so very much. Any work I do on Gulliver in the future will be posted on here somewhere, and there's still the promised re-build.

One more thing. I discovered that even had I been able to photograph the process of rebuilding the tranny,
I would not have been able to post them, as I am not an "Elite" explorer. I did read somewhere that if one were to constructively contribute to the knowledge base on the site here, one might be considered for a fee-free add to this status. I tried to e-mail the administrator, but my e-mail client lists the addy as un-deliverable.
If any of you guys know how to get in touch with the admin, put in a good word for me if you think I deserve it. Thanks again to all, and to all a good night.

 

[cloaked_chaos]

One more thing. I discovered that even had I been able to photograph the process of rebuilding the tranny,
I would not have been able to post them, as I am not an "Elite" explorer.

I use www.imageshack.us to host my pictures. You then use the "image" button when making a post, and it will promt you for the url of the picture.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Did you try Rick@Explorerforum.Com or Ab7fh@Yahoo.Com? What about sending him a PM?

 

[K80]

Tool return

Glacier, your Pump align tool, the little socket, and the extender are on their way...should be there Monday or Tues. Oh, and I sent you a surprise.....it is so you might put it into your collection of "what went wrong" items, if such a collection you have. I do, and it is full of various parts from various pieces of equipment that I've had to repair over the years. It would be my crowning artifact, but I want you to have it. Think of it as a token of why you and I do what we do....like a Slayer might hang the fangs of the vampires they've killed in her den....lol.

 

[AERBROCONVIL]

Well you made it.

I started mine on July 2, 2006.

I am still not done.

Aside from ebay VB's 3 of them. New OD Shell, and a host of other delays. I am so burned out on it, I could care less if I ever fix it. I could pull the usual parts and crush it. But it is a great vehicle, and I do like to drive it. So it sits.

Here is a quick question. Why do you have to use an alignment tool? Can't I just cut the snout off my old converter and use it? allowing for the wear.

 

[Glacier991]

Here is a quick question. Why do you have to use an alignment tool? Can't I just cut the snout off my old converter and use it? allowing for the wear.

That is one way.... depending on the condition of the bushing and how you intend to "allow for wear". In a perfect world the tool would be a close tolerance fit into the bushing.

 

[K80]

Well you made it.

I started mine on July 2, 2006.

I am still not done.

Aside from ebay VB's 3 of them. New OD Shell, and a host of other delays. I am so burned out on it, I could care less if I ever fix it. I could pull the usual parts and crush it. But it is a great vehicle, and I do like to drive it. So it sits.

Here is a quick question. Why do you have to use an alignment tool? Can't I just cut the snout off my old converter and use it? allowing for the wear.

Well, I found that using the bellhousing bolts worked okay, (see earlier post) but I still wanted to check that theory with the tool. I was able to do that thanks to Glacier, and it really does get it done..... What you do is place the new washers (but NOT the o-rings yet...) on the bellhousing bolts and insert them into their holes from the back side of the bellhousing, with the housing bell-down on a flat, level surface. The outside edge of the pump body should be centered by and within the ring formed by the washers and bolt heads in their holes. Alternatively, you could also take a small, flat-angled (not round) piece of chalk and run it all the way around the pump body before you remove it. You will be left with a ring around the exact spot where the body used to be.

I'm not convinced that using the T.C. spline to align the pump would be a good Idea because the T.C. spline shaft was not designed to be so snug a fit in the bore as that.
The T.C.'s weight is supported by the pump spline on it's inside face....since that is precisely what we are trying to align (the pump body and that spline), it stands to reason that there will be too much play between the inside edge of the front seal and the outside edge of the T.C. spline since the seal was not designed to be a load-baring structure and its' only task is to keep a pressure seal around the spline.
If the alignment is off by even a hair, it creates un-even pressure characteristics at that seal because the seal stretches only so far in any given direction. In other words, if the alignment is off enough, tranny fluid could be allowed to escape the seal, in addition to the wear and noise issues from the spline not seating in the gear properly. The proper tool, on the other hand, is a very snug fit both inside and out.
From a mechanical perspective, the pump should be just fine if it has been just fine so far. Maybe flush it out or something if you have large debris concerns.....such as finding any large (can be held or manipulated without tools) chunks of metal anywhere in the trannys' internals. My personal advice...if this is still an option for you...is to leave the pump body alone unless you are certain there is something wrong with it.
There are only two moving parts in the whole thing, they are both bad ass, precision-machined chunks of steel, and they are two of the strongest moving parts in the whole tranny, along with the output shaft, parking pawl and slot thingy, and the anchor/apply struts for the bands. In other words, they ain't breakin'.
If they ever do, you have much larger problems than the tranny. Like you hooked a 550 H.P. bored-out, blowered and turbo-ed big block to it and tried to drag.
Where exactly are you at in the build? What are the major obstacles you're facing so far? This is obviously not your daily driver, so what level of build are you shooting for? Bullet-proof, or any-which-way-you-can? Explain what happened and what you have done so far. We will help as we are able.

 

[BrooklynBay]

My pump gears exploded a few years ago on a Sunday morning when I was in Pennsylvania about 85 miles away. It cost a lot to get towed back to NY on a Sunday night. The transmission didn't have much internal damage other than a few seals, and broken pump gears. Those metal fragments were everywhere, and severely clogged up the valve body. So in my opinion, if you are already opening the transmission, check those gears for hair line cracks, and excessive wear. I rebuilt the transmission about a year before this happened, but didn't replace the gears. It cost me a lot more in a long run.

 

[K80]

My pump gears exploded a few years ago on a Sunday morning when I was in Pennsylvania about 85 miles away. It cost a lot to get towed back to NY on a Sunday night. The transmission didn't have much internal damage other than a few seals, and broken pump gears. Those metal fragments were everywhere, and severely clogged up the valve body. So in my opinion, if you are already opening the transmission, check those gears for hair line cracks, and excessive wear. I rebuilt the transmission about a year before this happened, but didn't replace the gears. It cost me a lot more in a long run.

Man. You shattered the gears? What were you doing? Were you towing? Had the tranny been re-built within the preceding 5K miles(I mean, within that last year, had you put 5K on it)? Was the engine modified? What kind of road were you on and how fast was the engine revving?

 

[BrooklynBay]

I mostly do city driving. I only go to Pennsylvania to visit my inlaws about 2 or 3 times a year. I don't do any towing. I put about 4k miles on a year. The transmission was acting funny on the trip there. The gears finally blew apart while parking at a low speed. I don't usually go more than 65-70 MPH tops. My average speed is about 60 MPH. I did rebuild it about a year before this happened, but I didn't open the pump to replace the gears (or check for hairline cracks). The engine is a stock 3.0L V6.

 

[AERBROCONVIL]

Well, I found that using the bellhousing bolts worked okay, (see earlier post) but I still wanted to check that theory with the tool. I was able to do that thanks to Glacier, and it really does get it done..... What you do is place the new washers (but NOT the o-rings yet...) on the bellhousing bolts and insert them into their holes from the back side of the bellhousing, with the housing bell-down on a flat, level surface. The outside edge of the pump body should be centered by and within the ring formed by the washers and bolt heads in their holes. Alternatively, you could also take a small, flat-angled (not round) piece of chalk and run it all the way around the pump body before you remove it. You will be left with a ring around the exact spot where the body used to be.

I'm not convinced that using the T.C. spline to align the pump would be a good Idea because the T.C. spline shaft was not designed to be so snug a fit in the bore as that.
The T.C.'s weight is supported by the pump spline on it's inside face....since that is precisely what we are trying to align (the pump body and that spline), it stands to reason that there will be too much play between the inside edge of the front seal and the outside edge of the T.C. spline since the seal was not designed to be a load-baring structure and its' only task is to keep a pressure seal around the spline.
If the alignment is off by even a hair, it creates un-even pressure characteristics at that seal because the seal stretches only so far in any given direction. In other words, if the alignment is off enough, tranny fluid could be allowed to escape the seal, in addition to the wear and noise issues from the spline not seating in the gear properly. The proper tool, on the other hand, is a very snug fit both inside and out.
From a mechanical perspective, the pump should be just fine if it has been just fine so far. Maybe flush it out or something if you have large debris concerns.....such as finding any large (can be held or manipulated without tools) chunks of metal anywhere in the trannys' internals. My personal advice...if this is still an option for you...is to leave the pump body alone unless you are certain there is something wrong with it.
There are only two moving parts in the whole thing, they are both bad ass, precision-machined chunks of steel, and they are two of the strongest moving parts in the whole tranny, along with the output shaft, parking pawl and slot thingy, and the anchor/apply struts for the bands. In other words, they ain't breakin'.
If they ever do, you have much larger problems than the tranny. Like you hooked a 550 H.P. bored-out, blowered and turbo-ed big block to it and tried to drag.
Where exactly are you at in the build? What are the major obstacles you're facing so far? This is obviously not your daily driver, so what level of build are you shooting for? Bullet-proof, or any-which-way-you-can? Explain what happened and what you have done so far. We will help as we are able.

I cut the tc snout off of my old tc. no core on that puppy,,lol. I haul junk cars on the side, so the tc is no problem. had many others to core from..lol. so the tc weight issue should be moot..

I did the vb, and am just lacking motivation.

I am an old hand at this, and it is not my first trans rebuild. I have many 700r4 and turbo350 and 400's under my thumb. I just burned out on this one because of the initial weakness of the parts inside the trans.
If this transmission could say MADE IN TAIWAN, it would.

Ford really dropped the ball on this transmission with so many obvious weak points. It would not have taken much engineering to turn this transmission into a strong performer, had there been the right incentives.

As a simple man, I can see many places you could machine some new parts and make things 10 times stronger. What is too bad, there really does not need to be so many different transmissions. This could have been the next great transmission, but they lost nerve and spent cash on something else, like the standard equipment heated engine compartment.

You could build on this transmission, and add all the great parts and things that glacier did, and I commend those who have, but you still have to add things that should have been there from the beginning.

the cd4e is another disaster transmission. Likes to explode.