ATTN: Welders - Flux Cored vs. Gas

[roccov12345]

Morning all,

Just a quick question for you welders. I bought a Sears Handy Mig last year mostly because it was the only thing on the market I could afford at the time especially as an absolute beginner. I've practiced welding sheet metal, exhaust piping and multiple other misc. metals and I still can't seem to get my bead right. I'm sure "practice makes perfect" but I feel like something just isn't working right. The welder came with two rolls, one flux cored to be used without Argon the other with. I've been using the flux cored and I think that might be where my problem lays. I could easily purchase a rental tank at the local gas supplier but I wanted to check with everyone to see if there is a major difference between gas vs. flux cored wire. Your opinions?

Thanks!

 

[DB_1]

Without going into to much detail, using shielded gas/solid wire would be much better for sheet metal. The tack, tack, tack method works good for this just be sure you do a few tacks then skip around so you don't warp the metal.
Also, make sure your metal is clean...no paint, grease, dirt, etc. Unlike fluxcore welding, MIG welding is more particular about having clean surfaces. I am by no means an expert so take my advise for what it's worth.

 

[beenwrong2002]

i aint no expert welder by any means either, but throw the argon in the mix with sheet metal...

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i have used both flux and gas (bodyman), and i have to say, i hate flux. it spatters way to much, and all around, its just a pain to use. if you can hook gas up, do it, and you will not believe the difference.

 

[justin146]

it is almost impossible to make a neat weld with flux core. I only use flux core if I am welding outside in the wind.

 

[roccov12345]

these are the answers I was looking for, especially since I'm experiencing nothing but spatter everywhere. I've tried all sorts of angles, pulling/dragging techniques, upside down, more heat, less heat, faster and slower feed rates and nothing seems to make a difference. I don't get the nice "stacked quarter" look that I want because it's constantly spattering and bubbling. The welder has a gas hook up so I guess I have to go out and get it......

 

[DeRocha]

As the others have said use gas for sheet metal, and flux heavier stuff.. The flux will have a much greater penetration for thicker material... And above all practice practice practice..

 

[beenwrong2002]

As the others have said use gas for sheet metal, and flux heavier stuff.. The flux will have a much greater penetration for thicker material... And above all practice practice practice..

no joke...

 

[sumless]

Yes, Flux can be ugly, but I have to agree it seems to penatrate much better. Depending on the type of welder (I'm not familiar with the welder you have) if its a light duty one, up to 1/8 or 1/4 inch, speed of the wire feed plays a fairly major role in the overall outcome of the weld. As mentioned, practice is your best bet. Thin body panels or sheet tends to be the most picky when welding. Too hot and you end up making holes or worse warping what you want straight. Too cold and it ends up looking like a big mess without holding anything together, at least not very well. One thing to also consider, make certain that your grounding both of the parts being welded. I've learned that if one of the sides isn't grounded well the flow of a bead tends to only end up one the grounded piece, while the other piece ends up looking cold-soldered (not welded). Flux tends to look ugly and misleads you into thinking you haven't got a good bead. Sometimes its best to stop, wire brush it and look again. MIG (with Gas) tends to flow better (as mentioned previously by Derocha) on thinner surfaces, but again, take your time and have patience.
One trick a friend of mine offered for welding at my start was it should sound like bacon frying in a frying pan during your beading.

As a caution, make darn sure your wearing long sleeves, a hat, and ear protection. It should go without saying a face mask with UV filter. Did have one friend get some slag popup and land in his ear while welding. Not pretty.

Good luck,
-Joe

 

[roccov12345]

Yes, Flux can be ugly, but I have to agree it seems to penatrate much better. Depending on the type of welder (I'm not familiar with the welder you have) if its a light duty one, up to 1/8 or 1/4 inch, speed of the wire feed plays a fairly major role in the overall outcome of the weld. As mentioned, practice is your best bet. Thin body panels or sheet tends to be the most picky when welding. Too hot and you end up making holes or worse warping what you want straight. Too cold and it ends up looking like a big mess without holding anything together, at least not very well. One thing to also consider, make certain that your grounding both of the parts being welded. I've learned that if one of the sides isn't grounded well the flow of a bead tends to only end up one the grounded piece, while the other piece ends up looking cold-soldered (not welded). Flux tends to look ugly and misleads you into thinking you haven't got a good bead. Sometimes its best to stop, wire brush it and look again. MIG (with Gas) tends to flow better (as mentioned previously by Derocha) on thinner surfaces, but again, take your time and have patience.
One trick a friend of mine offered for welding at my start was it should sound like bacon frying in a frying pan during your beading.

As a caution, make darn sure your wearing long sleeves, a hat, and ear protection. It should go without saying a face mask with UV filter. Did have one friend get some slag popup and land in his ear while welding. Not pretty.

Good luck,
-Joe

Thanks for the info Joe! I've had that experience with thin sheet metal, in my restoration thread I welded the rear wiper of the trunk shut and what a pain in the ass that was. I was being a little too impatient while I was tack welding and all of a sudden "pop." Warped about a half of foot section, not fun trying to straighten that back out. I've heard the same as for the bacon frying method, I've gotten it to sound like that just turns out really sloppy. I feel like such a newb when it comes to welding. I've asked numerous people about the techniques which all seem to be a little different.

What is the best technique for forming a even and stacked quarter looking bead? Do you move your hand consistantly, do you stop and wait for the circle to form and move to the next? Let's use for example exhaust piping. As I start my bead, let's say I'm getting decent penetration with no burn thru, do I move the weld down the pipe consistently, pause, circular motion, drag pause? I'm all f ing confused. LOL

 

[beenwrong2002]

start off doing half moons type deals like )_)_)_)_)_)_) lol hard to explain

 

[sumless]

<What is the best technique for forming a even and stacked quarter looking bead?>
As Beenwrong mentions half moons or little "c"s tend to be a good method. As mentioned before, wirespeed tends to be the key, along with correct electric/amp. Exaust tends to be an easy weld type, generally your not super concerned with the look. Exterior facing welds that your going to finish (i.e. paint over/bondo etc) I typically C/C/C/C (if you can imagine the bottom of the C moving diagnally to the top of the next C). Another tidbit I'll offer, if you over weld the bead, its alot easier to deal with grinding off the excess than compromising the strength of it.
I guess it really depends on what it is your welding and what its going to be doing. I.e. a roll cage versus body panel. Also, you might want to look at getting weld-thru primer for overlapping welds. I know the thought that having a super clean metal to metal overlap is good, but once you seal the deal, that exposed metal will eventually rust. I leave a slight area of clean metal and prime the heck out of the areas I know I'll not be able to hit with primer after..

-Joe

 

[rlfknlorangers]

DEF gas gas gas gas gas for sheetmetal..and the c stiching metho dis plenty fine but theres also nothing wrong with running a solid bead if you fell it wont burn through....im prolly just restating what someelse has already said, since i only glanced through the other posted-lol but i fiqured it be worth posting anyway

 

[Glacier991]

Just exchanged my empty tank of C25 for a new one yesterday. $45. Have gas on hand to use and compare. Gas beads are prettier and easier (IMHO).... as for penetration I have not done heavier material to give an opinion.

 

[jcarlisle]

Like everyone has said def use c25 for sheetmetal, straight co2 is better for heavy work as it has better penetration, and higher heat, with the downside of more splatter. But its still better than flux..

 

[Rage1973]

i have used both flux and gas (bodyman), and i have to say, i hate flux. it spatters way to much, and all around, its just a pain to use. if you can hook gas up, do it, and you will not believe the difference.

I agree 100%, flux sux!! get the gas you will not be disappointed

 

[95offroadx]

I like gas, theres a lot of things that can make the bead look bad. your angle, wire feed, heat, the motion your making.... the list goes on a on.Im going to votech for welding and its my second 2year of the 2 year program. All you have to do is practice, mess around with the wire feed and heat. Youll get it after a while it takes time

but flux isnt as bad a people make it...if you get the machine set up right itll look good just like with gas