Auto Hubs (Again)

[oharris]

My left auto hub has gone south again. This is on a '94 Explorer, and the hubs are a little different than the 91-92 hubs. I understand that there is a plastic cam that breaks on the earlier hubs. What is it that breaks on the 94 hubs? Are the earlier hubs more durable? Would it be worth switching over? If you look in the hub, you can see a three pronged sleeve around the perimeter. Compared with the right side (which still works beautifully), those prongs are much lower, probably by 1/8 inch. The first hub which was replaced last year is exactly the same way. It's as though a spring has broken inside. My snap ring pliers are too big to get at the snap ring in the center so I haven't been able to take it apart. Is this what's happened?

I also tried jacking up the wheels and running it in 4WD to see if I could get it to engage. It made a clicking sound as though the teeth were running over each other. I found if I spun the wheel to match the speed of the shaft, I could sometimes get the hub to engage. I'm now wondering if I put a spacer under the cam on the spindle which would force the sleeve further into the hub if it would engage. Has anyone tried this?

I know the best solution is to convert to manual hubs, but I really would like to keep the auto hubs if they would be reliable. The main reason is, I want to keep the ability to engage 4WD on the fly when it suddenly starts snowing on the interstate. Pulling over to lock manual hubs is a good way to get rear ended.

Thanks in advance,
Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[TPLYNCH]

I would save yourself the time and trouble and $$$$ for the auto's and just switch to the manuals. As for having to pull over on the interstate, you can always lock the hubs without being in 4x4. Adds a little drag, but doesn't do any damage. This way, if you know it is supposed to snow and you're leaving work, just lock the hubs. Then if it starts snowing, all you do is hit the switch and you are four wheeling. No stopping and getting out required!

 

[Rob]

Hub problems

TPLYNCH,
I have experienced the same problems with auto hubs like you. It took me another $340 for the replacement to figure out what others kept telling me. Auto hubs are weak. Ford subcontracted the manufacturing of the hubs to Warn and these vehicles were never intended for our specific hobbies. I have replaced the last set with manuals and even this set leaves me with some concern as to their durability. No problems yet. If you decide to change to manuals ensure you get the latest change to it, which includes a ring with set-screws. Good Luck

 

[Ray Lobato]

Rob,
Warn dosen't make the conversion kit (with the slotted rings and tap screws) anymore. I do know that Milemarker now makes manual hubs for the Explorer. You might want to check them out. If you do, Please post your findings here. I'm sure there are many who would like to know how good the MileMarkers are.

 

[Rob]

Too bad!

RAY,
That is too bad, I had an incident in which the lock-rings backed out and allowed the bearings to collapse. This caused premature wear and excessive heat. I ended-up replacing bearings, rotor, breaks, calipers and bendix. OVERALL A BAD EXPERIENCE! I will keep the other brand in mind.
Thanks Ray, Rob

 

[oharris]

So, let me get this straight, Warn who supplies the auto hubs, can't make them reliable, and the manual ones don't have a reliable locking nut. How frustrating. Does anyone have any idea how much the mile-marker hubs are? Who even sells them?

What about full-size hubs? Are the F-150 auto hubs reliable? Has anyone tried to fit F-150 stuff on their explorer? I realize it would require changing wheels and just about everything else, but at least you'd have options. I'll never understand why Ford decided to go with the small lug pattern and these toy hubs in the first place.

Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[Rob]

I have just looked at milemarker's web site. They show a part number but not the price, as you can not order direct from this location. There is a representative locator on their site, which may lead you to the right person depending upon your location. If you contact them and find their price, please post it in this thread. Part# is "A"428. Their website is... http://www.milemarker.com

Rob

 

[Ray Lobato]

Hi Oliver,
I don't know how much or even who would have them, but I saw them on MileMarkers website. I wonder if they have some sort of locking ring, nut on their hubs?

 

[oharris]

Well, I sent them and email, asking who carries them and how much. I will certainly post what I find out. They must either use the ford locking nut or have their own. I haven't had any problems with the factory locking nuts, is there any way to use those with the Warn hubs? What is special about their nut?

Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[Rob]

To be seen

Both the "original automatic" and the "aftermarket manual" hubs are manufactured by WARN. Once the manual hubs are instaled the outer locking nut for the auto will not fit completely to insert the washer and its spring clip. The manual hub Outer locking nut, actually is locked in place by the meer force of the torque applied to it(I believe 145 Foot-pounds). Some times during friction or vibration this nut will back out, thus collapsing the bearings and or causing damage to the hub itself. I would like to see how milemarker is going to prevent their product from causing the same damage.

 

[oharris]

I just looked on Dead Link Removed, and they list them for $152.69. I found it by searching for Mile Marker Part# 428. It does require a conversion kit (locking nuts I assume) Part# 95-27997 for $47.39. They guy I talked to at Summit said they were brand new and were not even listed in his book, so he didn't know anything about them. Also, both part numbers were a special order item and would take a couple weeks to get. I wonder if Mile Marker is even shipping them yet. I think I will call Mile Marker in the morning and find out availability and how they are securing the locking nut.

Also, you said both the original automatic and the aftermarket manual hubs are made by Warn. Who makes the original manual? Was that even an option on Explorers? Has anyone tried using the locknuts from a factory manual hub, maybe from an older Ranger or Bronco II?

Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[Rob]

Warn also manufactures the original manual hubs and I strongly believe they use the same setup. I have heard stories of people having to stop every so many miles to retorque the locking nuts. Needless to say you need a special adapter to torque the lucknuts. Heavens forbid what would happen if you were caught without these tools in the middle of nowhere. Yes, it was an option through direct factory order. Some dealers have em available, but at a higher price than other parts-stores. The hubs are the same. The problem with using the hardware from some Ranger's and Bronco II's, is the differene in sizes of the shafts and spline count. Even the Explorer have different sizes depending on the axle installed. I tried...

 

[oharris]

I called Mile marker, and they said their conversion kit is a double nut setup just like Warn's. Warn's is a double nut right, not just a single? The guy at milemarker said this was the first production run and they haven't had any problems so far. I think I will go with the Warn hubs, I'm going to use the $50 coupon at carparts.com. If they carried milemarker, I might try them, but as it is, the Warn hubs are much cheaper. Does anyone have an online coupon for summit racing or somewhere else that carries Milemarker?

Thanks,

Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[Rob]

Double nut it is!

Oliver,
The manual hubs from Warn are double nutted (I believe they come separate as required by the shaft size of your spindle), see if you can find the kit that has the setscrews with it. Hopefully they have it in stock. The $50 dollar coupon for CARPARTS.COM IS CODE NUMBER 1574006. Punch the number at time of purchase, if this is your first time buying from them. I dont have any info regarding other coupons.
Rob

 

[Rob]

If you want to see the set up, there are several pictures of the manual hub and the locking nut setup in the July edition of the Four Wheeler magazine, page 84. Funny thing... it is being installed on a 4.0L Jeep. This may be good news as it may revive complaints from a different group about the design of the locking nuts.

 

[CHH777]

Is there any way to cut a slot in the nut and use the key from the auto hubs?

 

[oharris]

You would have to cut slots every few degrees to be able to tighten the nuts. You would also need some way to hold the keyway in there.

The threads on the spindle look the same as on full-size trucks. I'll bet you could use the locking nuts off of a full-size Ford or Chevy. They use a nut with a pin in it, and a washer with holes in it. A second nut holds it all tight. They require the four pronged socket though. I might try that first before I buy the kit.

Also, received the following from Mile Marker:

The MSRP for the Explorer hubs is $164.15. You can purchase these from any
Auto Zone store. The Auto Zone part number is 235877. If you have
automatic hubs on the vehicle now, you need to purchase a conversion kit
also, MSRP is $45.76. The Auto Zone part # is 235909.


Oliver Harris
'94 Explorer XLT, 5sp 4x4

 

[Rob]

The description of the locking mechanism you have given is the same as the manual hubs for the Explorer. The internal nut has a small pin. Then there is a slotted washer and finally the outer locking nut which retains the other two in place by 150lbs of torque. I am trying to remember why I could not use the other nut...

 

[Rob]

I am certain that I did try to use the other nut and because of the differences in internal design between the hubs I couldnt install the manual over it. But it could probably work if you machined the two nuts to achieve the same space taken by the new setup, in diameter and depth. I am going to ponder about this.

 

[Big E]

I have had my manual hubs on my Explorer for about two years or so. I switched them from the suto hubs. The manual ones are alot stronger. I installed them myself and have had no problem with them. And I really don't think there is a problem if they are installed right. As Rob said torque the outer nut to 150lbs. Not just with a regular ratchet or what ever you use. Use a torque wrench. Also I am sure that if you took the outer nuts to a machine shop that they could drill and tap some holes for set screws. Just my two cents

Eric