Automatic Hub Problems--HELP!!!

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

I have a 92 Explorer with automatic hubs (unfortunately). I'm having a problem with the driver's side hub. When I put it in 4 wheel drive, as I'm driving down the road the driver's side hub seems to "pop". When it "pops" it jerks to the left instantaeously. It will "pop" every couple minutes for as long as I keep driving. So I spent $210 on a new automatic hub and put it on last night. The old hub was extremely wore out inside; the casing was scored because of the sloppiness of the internal parts being wore out. The new hub engages and seems to work but it still "pops" and jerks to the left. I can't figure out what's happening. Is the hub engaging and the disengaging suddenly or is it something else? I can't believe the brand new hub is doing the same thing as the old worn out hub, which makes me wonder if the problem is somewhere else. I"m at a loss at what this could be. Can you guys help???

 

[MrShorty]

Any chance you have mismatched tires somewhere? What you are describing reminds me of what my BII did when I had mismatched tires (which caused the drivetrain to bind up in 4wd until something released the tension).

When you put the new hub on, did you fill it with grease (not supposed to)?

 

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

I'm pretty sure the tires are the same size, but I will check that tomorrow just to rule it out. I appreciate your input and I'll look into it and report back tomorrow evening.

And to answer your question, no I didn't put any grease in the new hub whatsoever. It already had some sort of grease in it (looked like mint green colored vasaline). After reading previous threads where they suggested not to pack the hub with grease (just a thin film of grease on the splines) I decided not to grease it at all....

 

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

Ok I checked the tire sizes tonight and they are all the same size....I had another question that might be a possibility, but need to know what you guys think....

There are 2 paper-thin shims behind the cam (not sure what it's called) that sits on the smooth part of the spindle lock nut. Could those shims be causing a problem by causing the wrong spacing? I would think it would force the cam closer to the splines inside the hub and make them lock together better, but who knows. There's a problem somewhere and I have no idea what it is. It seems like the hub is not staying locked and keeps popping out, but I'm not sure. All I know is it keeps "popping" and jerking to the left when it pops. Any thoughts or suggestions???

 

[MrShorty]

Ok I checked the tire sizes tonight and they are all the same size

Same size and manufacturer and wear level? When my BII did this, all the tires were the same "size" (235/75/15), but different style/manufacturer, and I guess the slight difference in size between make/model/wear of the tires was enough to create tension in the drivetrain in 4wd. It seems that not everybody sees this kind of behavior in the same situation -- I only know that was one of the symptoms with mine.

Your symptoms are consistent with one of the hubs periodically "slipping."

When you replaced the hub, did it come with a new cam and other internals, or was it just the outer part of the hub?

I remember seeing those thin spacers on my autohubs, so I think they are supposed to be there.

 

[DeRocha]

Are you sure it's the HUB and not a worn U-joint? The Stub axle U-joints (the ones right behind the steering Knuckle) wear the most because they undergo the most articulation of all U-Joints on your vehicle.

These U-joints undergo up/down (hitting bumps) and left/right (steering) articulation with 4x4 off and HUBs unlocked. With HUBs locked they undergo up/down and left/right at the same time as undergoing rotation which is extreme and can fubar a worn U-joint in no time.

If you turn off 4x4 (but keep the hubs locked) do you have the same symptoms?

 

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

Mr Shorty:

Both tires are brand new and are from the same manufacturer and are the same size. And yes, the new automatic hub came with a new cam as well as the new hub. I replaced all the components and still the same "popping", which is why I'm thinking it's something else besides the hub because I shouldn't be having a problem with a new part. Here's something that might help diagnose the problem...when I installed the new hub, I personally witnessed the tire spin with it locked in 4-wheel drive, so I know it's engaging and working. But it keeps popping....

DeRocha:

As I mentioned above, I'm thinking it's got to be some other problem because the hub is brand new and does lock into 4 wheel drive. You mentioned the stub axle U-joints...I think you're onto something here. That makes alot of sense and I never thought of the U-joints. But this is why I'm on here asking for help. I will definitely look at that tomorrow.

So is the stub axle U-joint located directly behind the rotor? Is that the one you're talking about? I saw a u-joint there tonight when I was pulling off the manual hubs on my 91 parts Explorer to swap onto my onto my 94 Explorer (I have 3 Explorers: the 92 with auto hubs that I'm asking your help with, a 94 and a 91 Explorer I just picked up for parts). That's the only U-joint under there I could see that would go through all the articulation you were talking about. If that's the u-joint in question, I'm guessing I have to remove the rotor completely from the vehicle to get to it, correct?

This one has automatic hubs so when you asked if it still "pops" with the 4x4 turned off but the hubs still locked in....well like I said they're automatic so how do you keep the hubs locked in if they're not manual hubs? Do you mean turn off the 4x4 and do not back up to unlock the hubs? If that's what you mean, then I think the answer to your question is..... yes, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm trying to remember....I don't drive it everyday, this is my girlfriend's explorer. I drive the 94. But if my memory serves me correctly I think it does still pop with 4wd turned off. Ur thoughts??? Does that sound like a U-joint problem?

 

[Tony H]

Are you sure it's the HUB and not a worn U-joint? The Stub axle U-joints (the ones right behind the steering Knuckle) wear the most because they undergo the most articulation of all U-Joints on your vehicle.

These U-joints undergo up/down (hitting bumps) and left/right (steering) articulation with 4x4 off and HUBs unlocked. With HUBs locked they undergo up/down and left/right at the same time as undergoing rotation which is extreme and can fubar a worn U-joint in no time.

If you turn off 4x4 (but keep the hubs locked) do you have the same symptoms?

I'm with you. Sure sounds like a frozen Axle 'U' joint

Maybe a broken spider gear tooth in the Front Diff. That causes that same hop feeling.

 

[DeRocha]

In order to remove the stub axles you need to completely tear down the front end.. HUB, Brake Caliper, Wheel bearings, Spindle...

How to remove a stuck spindle

 

[Tony H]

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=95

DeRocha shows where you need to be. Yes, The Caliper has to be lifted out of the way, the Clips and nut has to come off to remove the Hub, the two small bolts and 6 nuts that hold on the Dust cover and the Spindle have to come off. Then screw this Lisle Socket on the spindle and with a Slide hammer just whack a few times and the Spindle should pop off.
It sounds like a lot of work if you've never done anything like this but it's not bad.
On the drivers side, the axle will just slide out through the Knuckle. If you are doing the passenger side, there's one additional step. Let us know if you plan on doing that side.

 

[Curtis]

I put manual hubs (warn) on my dads 91, and it was the best $140 upgrade
no more broken hubs after that, no more popping, hopping etc.

 

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

Thanks for the picture and the advise guys!!!! I'm pretty good with mechanics so I'll be able to do this job with no problem, just didn't know what all was involved in getting to the U-joint as I've never worked on a Explorer before. I'll tackle this project over the weekend.

Now I have a question about my 94 Explorer....I just swapped manual hubs onto it last night from my 91 parts Explorer and the 4wd works finally. However, I have something I'm concerned with. It pulls to the right, like it's out of alignment or something, but when the 4wd is off and the hubs are unlocked, it drives straight down the road with no pulling. Does anyone know what could cause this? The only thing I could think of is maybe I got one of the axle nuts tighter (against the bearing) than the other nut, but truthfully I don't think that's the problem but I can't think of anything else. Any ideas???

 

[DeRocha]

Thanks for the picture and the advise guys!!!! I'm pretty good with mechanics so I'll be able to do this job with no problem, just didn't know what all was involved in getting to the U-joint as I've never worked on a Explorer before. I'll tackle this project over the weekend.

Now I have a question about my 94 Explorer....I just swapped manual hubs onto it last night from my 91 parts Explorer and the 4wd works finally. However, I have something I'm concerned with. It pulls to the right, like it's out of alignment or something, but when the 4wd is off and the hubs are unlocked, it drives straight down the road with no pulling. Does anyone know what could cause this? The only thing I could think of is maybe I got one of the axle nuts tighter (against the bearing) than the other nut, but truthfully I don't think that's the problem but I can't think of anything else. Any ideas???

The pre-load on the wheel bearings would affect the ride in both 2x4 and 4x4 the same (so wheel bearings shouldn't be causing the pulling you describe). When the HUBs are locked the spindle bearings (within the spindle), U-joints and Diff are the only variables that come into play. Have you tried locking just one side and driving around to see if one side feels heavier or pulls vs the other?

 

[1992 Eddie Bauer]

No I haven't tried that yet. Wasn't sure what to do to test it. I'll give that a shot and see what happens.

 

[intropiles]

Any chance you have mismatched tires somewhere? What you are describing reminds me of what my BII did when I had mismatched tires (which caused the drivetrain to bind up in 4wd until something released the tension).

When you put the new hub on, did you fill it with grease (not supposed to)?

My BII did it too. That's the worst thing that happened to me. :roll:

 

[TedJ]

Check the how-to thread below, it should help with doing the u-joints....

 

[*Rachelle*]

I have a 1993 Ford Explorer, when I put it in four wheel drive the driver side hub pops replaced it with a new one it still does the same thing, as I was reading some of you advised for the U joints Good thought! Definitely will give that a try! thanks you guys are much help!! also the other day I locked them in and after unlocking them my front end on the driver side it feels like its wobbly and every so often when i turn to the left the driver side it makes a weird sound...any suggestions on what that could be? as writing this im thinking it could be cause it did not unlock all the way....?