Ball Joint/Control Arm Questions

[duke16]

When purchasing the right side control arm from Moog, Part # K8710T says it is a 2 piece design. Does that mean it comes with the two pieces (the frame mount and the ball joint mount) or that it is designed for the two piece control arm?

This is probably a silly question, but does Part # K8695T, the lower ball joint from Moog, come with just the 1 ball joint, or does it come with 2 (one for either side)? On the Autozone website it says "2 Per Vehicle". But it's not clear to me whether that means 2 are required or that 2 a supplied. The price is $47.99, so that seems a little steep for just the one. The same part on rockauto.com is $28.79, but again, I don't know if that's for 1 or 2.

How do I know if I need new tie rods? And is there anything else I should look to replace while I'm doing all this? I figure I may as well do all that I can now and save money latter on by not needing to get another alignment done. The truck has a little over 103000 miles on it.

Thanks.

 

[gijoecam]

The uppers *may* be a 2-piece part. AFAIK, they've been replaced industry-wide with the 1-piece unit.

Lowers are just the joint, and are not side-specific. A lower joint is a lower joint, not an entire control arm assembly.

I'll be doing inner and outer tie rods as well as my ball joints as soon as funds permit. (I need them SOON!!)

-Joe

 

[KPT]

When I got my moog upper right, it was only the outer piece with the BJ, not the piece that bolts to the frame. That has been several years ago though.

The lowers come with just one, you need to order two.

 

[duke16]

I'll be doing inner and outer tie rods as well as my ball joints as soon as funds permit. (I need them SOON!!)

-Joe

How do you know you need them? What do I need to look for.

 

[duke16]

When I got my moog upper right, it was only the outer piece with the BJ, not the piece that bolts to the frame. That has been several years ago though.

Do you remember which you ordered? The 1 or 2 piece.

 

[KPT]

"Parts:
MOOG or DANA/SPICER Part #K8710T"

That email for the order was 9/20/04 (more recent than I thought). So its the two piece. I'd go for the one piece so you get new bushings.

You may have to get cams/wedges for proper alignment, but if I'm thinking right those are for camber and the two piece design was for caster. Someone please verify this.....

 

[duke16]

Ok, I think I figured the Moog one and two piece control arm out, and please correct me if I'm wrong. The 1 piece is just that, 1 piece, just like the left side. And, the 2 piece ONLY comes with the ball joint part, NOT the frame mount. So it's designed for the 2 piece, but only comes with 1 piece.

So, assuming that's correct. What are the benefits to having a two piece? Is it just greater room for alignment. And if I do get the "2 piece", what about the bushings on the frame mount... would they not need replacing?

 

[gijoecam]

How do you know you need them? What do I need to look for.

The rubber boots on both my outers are dry-rotted to oblivion, and if I'm gonna do the outers, I'm not going to skip the inners with 140k on them.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

The two piece allows you to adjust the caster. The one piece does not.

When replacing ball joints you are best at doing both sides. That's why Autozone's site says "Two per vehicle".

Now it's possible that just the lowers are bad or vice-versa. If you have a lot of miles you should replace all four ball joints.

 

[duke16]

Hmm, I thought the 2-piece was for caster not camber... Well if it's camber will I need to install camber adjustment bolts on that side? And do they allow for as much adjustment as the 2-piece does?

 

[Dan Whitaker]

Hmm, I thought the 2-piece was for caster not camber... Well if it's camber will I need to install camber adjustment bolts on that side? And do they allow for as much adjustment as the 2-piece does?

Doh! I mis-typed that. It is CASTER.

 

[duke16]

Doh! I mis-typed that. It is CASTER.

So in that case, don't I want to try and stick with the 2-piece in case the caster ever needs adjusting? What do most people on the board go with?

 

[duke16]

Oh actually, do the camber bolts also adjust caster?...

 

[Dan Whitaker]

Oh actually, do the camber bolts also adjust caster?...

No they do not.

 

[gijoecam]

Yes they do. Crank the rear camber adjuster out and the front adjuster in, and the upper ball joint will move towards the front. That's how they adjust the caster on the one-piece upper arms. It's a bigger pain in the butt than the two-piece arm, but it can be done. It also changes the suspension geometry as the upper arms are not moving in different planes from the left to the right side, but the majority of owners won't be able to notice the difference.

 

[duke16]

So I think I'll go with the one piece in that case, that way I get new bushings. But my question now is what camber/caster kit do I get. Looking on rockauto.com I see 2, 1 in the Alignment Caster/Camber Cam Bolt Kit section

MOOG Part # K80065 {Caster Camber Cam Bolt Kit}
Frt Susp; 4WD; Problem Solver; adjustment range from -1-5/8 to +1-5/8 Deg.
Frt Susp; 2WD; Problem Solver; adjustment range from -1-5/8 to +1-5/8 Deg

and one in the Alignment Caster/Camber Cam Kit section

MOOG Part # K8674 {Caster Camber Cam Kit}
Frt Susp; Upper; 2WD; Incl. 2 Cams; adjustment range from -1-1/4 to +1-1/4 Deg.
Frt Susp; Upper; 4WD; Incl. 2 Cams; adjustment range from -1-1/4 to +1-1/4 Deg.

Do I need the first because that includes the bolt? Or do I reuse the bolt that's there now.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

You can not use the factory camber adjusting bolts as the camber washer is part of the bolt.

I would get the camber adjusters form Advance Autoprts on line as you can get a set with -2-1/2 to + 2-1/2 degree adjustment.

If you ever do a torsion twist you will want them.

 

[CDW6212R]

The basic camber washers work with the factory camber bolts, which are not part of the washers. They are separate parts, the washers worked for mine at over 2" of lowering.

I believe I will ask my alignment shop if they would rather have the two piece upper arm. Regards,

 

[duke16]

How do you know when the upper balljoint is all the way into the knuckle? I've been hammering away at it, but I can't get it to go down very far.

-- EDIT --

Scratch that, finally got it to go down... but now I'm not sure if I have it to far down... where's the optimal position?

 

[duke16]

How do you know when the upper balljoint is all the way into the knuckle? I've been hammering away at it, but I can't get it to go down very far.

-- EDIT --

Scratch that, finally got it to go down... but now I'm not sure if I have it to far down... where's the optimal position?

Oh i see, there was a notch on the arm where the bolt has to go through.