Before I pull the head - Need Advice!

[Daisywheels]

I still suspect you have a damaged valve or valve spring in cylinder 3 but that doesn't explain the coolant/oil mix.

I guess I'm the lucky winner for guessing right. And the loser for being out a truck. All that work - what a shame. Pretty bummed out right now - DW

 

[2000StreetRod]

Detonation?

The hole in the piston explains the lack of compression but not the coolant in the oil. Is the head gasket blown allowing coolant to leak into the combustion chamber and then pass thru the hole in the piston to the upper oil pan? I didn't see signs of detonation on the valves. What is your explanation for the damaged pistons?

 

[Daisywheels]

The hole in the piston explains the lack of compression but not the coolant in the oil. Is the head gasket blown allowing coolant to leak into the combustion chamber and then pass thru the hole in the piston to the upper oil pan? I didn't see signs of detonation on the valves. What is your explanation for the damaged pistons?

I honestly can't tell if the head gasket blew or not. I'll take the gasket off and look for cracks near cylinder 3.

As far as my explanation for guessing a hole in the piston.... Merely a guess. I did it in my 64 Nova Boat motor (valve dropped). I thought I would see a valve drooping or something on the truck, but I really have no idea what could cause that hole in the piston. None.

I do appreciate all your help tho, StreetRod. It was a learning experience. I learned not to go near this motor -- ever. -DW

 

[ranger7ltr]

Ouch...

When I see the combustion chamber and piston crown especially in an aluminum head I would think something got into the cylinder and bounced around until it either hotspotted or broke through the weakest point inside...

That was not pretty but with no compression in that cylinder I would have expected lots of blow-by from the crankcase vent...

I guess I'm the lucky winner for guessing right. And the loser for being out a truck. All that work - what a shame. Pretty bummed out right now - DW

 

[Daisywheels]

When I see the combustion chamber and piston crown especially in an aluminum head I would think something got into the cylinder and bounced around until it either hotspotted or broke through the weakest point inside...

That was not pretty but with no compression in that cylinder I would have expected lots of blow-by from the crankcase vent...

Just got back from returning parts and was talking to the parts guy who knows this motor. His best guess was foreign matter too. The ONLY thing I can think of that got in there through the intake runners is pine needles. They are everywhere here where I live. I would think they would burn up tho, rather than cause damage. Who knows - the mystery continues.

I never took off the crankcase vent - is that just pulled out by hand and held by the rubber grommet it is seated in?

-DW

 

[Daisywheels]

There are two common points of failure for the right cassette guide assembly. The top where kept in position by the upper guide post.

Your upper guide post section looks good. But it could be broken down below. Try pulling upward on the guide. If it moves more than about 1/8 inch it may be broken below.

Turns out the rear right cassettes were changed out. There IS metal reinforcement on the slack side on my truck. But it is a very lightweight cheap alloy of some sort that in my mind feels like a hardened polymer/plastic would still do a better job.

Any ways, I have the valve springs and valves out of cyl 3, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with them. I still have to take out the seals and guides, but I do not think I will find anything. The head gasket looked fine as well. I think something went wrong in the block. What would cause a piston to travel upwards further than it should, causing it to throw a rocker? That's what I'm guessing is what happened, as of now. My other guess is restricted exhaust - I did have a sound like an exhaust leak, and I was also running lean for awhile. -DW

 

[Daisywheels]

Pull engine or no?

Okay all you mechanics out there - would pulling the motor on this truck, and leaving it in the back cargo area add any value when selling what I have left? In other words, if you know you have to replace a motor on a project truck you bought, would you rather see the engine in or out?

I don't mind trying to pull the motor just to say I did, really. I never have before, could use the experience, and can't cost much more than a cherry picker rental, and maybe an engine stand. Thoughts? Thanks! -DW

 

[boominXplorer]

Okay all you mechanics out there - would pulling the motor on this truck, and leaving it in the back cargo area add any value when selling what I have left? In other words, if you know you have to replace a motor on a project truck you bought, would you rather see the engine in or out?

I don't mind trying to pull the motor just to say I did, really. I never have before, could use the experience, and can't cost much more than a cherry picker rental, and maybe an engine stand. Thoughts? Thanks! -DW

Your best bet is to stop now so someone else knows where everything goes. If you pull the motor out you might as well put a newer one back in

On the coolant leak I just had a 2003 explorer in my shop with coolant in the oil and couldn't figure it out. It was running completely normal with no smoke. When the pressure tester was on the radiator there was a slight hiss coming from the drivers valve cover. I took the head off and took it to the machine shop where they found a freeze plug had rusted out from the inside and was leaking into the oil. It was one of the little ones under the cam too. All of them had to be changed as they all had signs of rust. The expansion tank was pretty scuzzy so it definitely was not running the correct coolant mixture.

 

[Daisywheels]

My bet is a damaged valve that doesn't seal/seat. If it doesn't always seat there would be less pressure on the cam follower allowing it to pop out. The casting for the valve guide could be cracked allowing coolant to leak into the intake port. Has the engine ever overheated?

When you say casting, are you talking about the head or the material the valve guide is made out of? BECAUSE: You are the BIG WINNER. I can't get a very good pic due to lighting, but the valve guide has two cracks on top that run down as far as I can see into the guide. They are NOT uniform lines. I cleaned it enough to tell. I also found another "possible" crack in the intake port on cylinder 3. Doubtful there are 2 casting lines there.

So we have 0 compression due to hole in piston, water leaking through guide, and how the hell did this even happen? I'm wondering now why when I bought the truck it had such a low temp T-stat in it. None of these problems even began until I changed that T-Stat to get the truck up to normal operating temp. -DW

 

[koda2000]

Personally I'd rather the engine was still in place, but as you've already taken it apart, it's pretty much junk anyway. Unless you plan on parting your truck out it's really not worth much more than scrap value now.

 

[SoHK_alumni]

To guess, I'd suggest a bolt/nut/screw managed to get dropped down the intake at some point in the engine's history and started bouncing around in the cylinder.

Finally wore a hole in the top of the piston and is probably down in the oil pan.

Cracked valve guide likely from the valve sandwiching the "object" between the piston crown and valve forcing the valve to flex to one side.

Possible/probable the freed rocker was from the object holding the valve open and allowing the rocker the slack to pop out of place. (maybe on it's way in to the cylinder?)

 

[2000StreetRod]

another possible explanation

The engine had a tendency to overheat due to the single row, one inch thick radiator core that Ford switched to in 1999. The previous owner installed a lower than standard thermostat in a futile attempt to prevent overheating. At some point the engine overheated and the head gasket failed allowing coolant to enter the combustion chamber. Coolant is basically incompressible and caused excessive pressure in the combustion chamber and detonation. The extended period of excessive pressure eventually resulted in piston and valve guide failure and cracked head.

No matter what the cause of the failure the question is what do you do now? Do you sell the vehicle as is, part it out, replace or repair the engine? You might be able to sell it as a fixer-upper to a home mechanic who has no labor cost. Even if it was in excellent running condition a 1999 is due for timing chain failure at any time.

 

[Daisywheels]

If it were ANY OTHER MOTOR, there would be no doubt I would swap a used engine in it. It would be my first time doing it, but pulling that head off wasn't fun. I have so much time invested in this, that I feel I lost the battle, and war. BUT, we have not learned from past wars so it is still up in the air.

Tranny is strong, 4X4 works, BUT I may have damaged one of my catalytic converters (dent in cover plate, but no codes ever saying anything was wrong with either Cat). Some wrecking yard gave me a good quote at 750 bucks complete with 60K miles. Car-part.com has complete motors for as little as $350.

AND, you are right, there is always the issue of the timing chains. Lots to think about. -DW

 

[shucker1]

I realize that the truck is a 99 and putting in a rebuilt engine may not be cost effective but however if you do indeed redo the power plant you can always have the personal satisfaction of saying "I did That".

No one can ever take it from you. Why do you think that 95% of us are here on this site!

LOL.....

 

[2000StreetRod]

Well said shucker1

I buy a brand new vehicle every 5 to 10 years but they are just transportation. I "enjoy" my used vehicles and what I learn from them.

 

[Daisywheels]

I could also look on the bright side (and I have maintained a good attitude through this ordeal, I hope?), and say that Ford designed that rocker/follower to throw when it senses problems. Since there is no compression, there is no pressure buildup and no catastrophic detonation. It was not until I put the follower back on, only to throw the exhaust rocker. That is precisely when the coolant entered the oil. Remember, I had just changed the oil prior to any starter bursts on compression tests and testing if the newly placed rocker would hold - with a NEW HLA, and 5 old HLAs.

And soHK, you are not the only one to suggest foreign matter got in there. If that is the case, then it is all on me, and not Ford - in this instance only. I guess I could pull the oil pan, seems easy enough, but then again, never done it, and this is ummmm FORD.

The guy at the parts store said the reason the cam timing chain was in the rear on the right side is because Ford decided to make both side's heads symmetrical in order to mass produce the heads, for cost savings obviously. Not sure about that, so don't shoot the messenger. -DW

 

[shucker1]

As for the heads, Only logical from a cost production standpoint.

Chris

 

[Daisywheels]

I realize that the truck is a 99 and putting in a rebuilt engine may not be cost effective but however if you do indeed redo the power plant you can always have the personal satisfaction of saying "I did That".

No one can ever take it from you. Why do you think that 95% of us are here on this site!

LOL.....

Yup. Nobody plans on losing when starting a war. There is pride at stake here!
Pride can be expensive tho

 

[Daisywheels]

I buy a brand new vehicle every 5 to 10 years but they are just transportation. I "enjoy" my used vehicles and what I learn from them.

Are you or were you a mechanic? You sure know your sh*t. Or was it just learning by doing - kinda what I'm starting out as. I would do clutches, even had a transmission stuck on my chest because my arms were so tired from trying to mount it), water pumps, Alternators, brakes, all accessories basically. Never even knew what a multi meter was before I joined this site.

When I was 16 and bought my first car, the water pump went out, and the shop wanted WAY more than I had. A buddy of mine said it was easy and he'd show me how to do it, as long as I did it. Never took a car to a shop ever again. Exception - Needed a frame straightended on a 79 Celica. Threw a rod in an 88 Nissan Sentra. Man, looking back, that would have been the car to start a motor swap on - just a simple little 4 banger. Wound up selling it to a kid who had a motor from his mom's car, but a wrecked frame. -DW

 

[2000StreetRod]

my first vehicle

When I was 16 my dad bought a 1957 Chevy for the family and gave me their 1950 Olds and a box of used tools to get me started. I'm a retired electrical engineer by degree but have been fixing and modifying my vehicles for 53 years. With modern vehicles problems seem to be as much electrical as mechanical.