Bitten by the (SAS) bug! | Page 6 | Ford Explorer Forums

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Bitten by the (SAS) bug!

Its fun -- and itll all come together in sequence. The first and most important thing is the steering (after the axle is located). Nothing else takes priority over the steering because the steering can not be moved and you should not have bent steering links -- the shocks can be moved an the panhard bar can be moved so those come after the steering.

True true, I'm on the verge of studying up on 3 link design. Senator, any input you may have is welcome.

I've put in my request to another recent v8 SAS'er for some steering box photos. (fusion213)

I'm seriously considering keeping the six lug junk to save a few hundred- any arguments against it?

BT93 and I need to get cracking on tearing that thing apart and getting the remaining parts to its new home at the scrap metal place. :D
 



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Sorry, I have a habit of posting and editing so re-read my reply ;) stuff added to it.

I see no reason why you shouldnt run the Wagoneer wheels as long as its wide enough to mount the target tire size your going to run. As suggested earlier by Mr. Mounty71, drop em off at Mr. Smith's house and have em powder coated and you'll be set :)
 












Here are some pics of the Toyota box I ran:

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Dont copy that panhard bar mount cauz it didnt work, it was ripping my chassis and I redid the whole thing. But where the steering box mounted was plated and 3/4" holes were drilled into the chassis. Small sections of 3/4" OD tube and whatever ID the bolts were was welded into those holes to strengthen the chassis by connecting both sides -- also acted as a sleeve to prevent you from crushing and deforming the chassis.
 






Oh, about the waggy wheels- I'd need a wheel stretcher to be able to keep my tires and I sold the last one I had last week :(

My tires are 75%, I'm going to need/ have to keep them, so 16" wheels are my only option. I think.
 


















Here's the issues and steps I did to run the Toy IFS box.
Mounting:
I bought a mounting plate kit from trail-gear to help me locate the holes and have some reinforcement plates on each side of the frame, the supplied bolts with the kit aren't long enough for our application so I picked some up at my local ace, I also ordered a stick of 3/4" OD 1/2" ID DOM to make longer sleeves, I bet if you requested it, trial-gear would've probably sent longer sleeves that you could cut down. Before putting these plates on, you can look on an explorer frame and find these "flared" out portions on the side of the frame rails where you would put the box. I'm assuming these are to help strengthen the frame. I cut out a piece of 1/4" steel plate with windows to lay over the outside of the frame rail and welded it in so that i'd have a smooth surface to weld the outer plates for the box. On the inside of the frame rail I didn't have the luxury of welding in a similar piece of steel to give me that smooth surface due to how ridiculously close the radiator hose would be to where the forward bolt would go through. I cut 6 3/4" holes for the sleeves, I recommend a hole saw... a 3/4" drill bit isn't the way to go. I put the plates on each side, ran the sleeves through and put some bolts up to see how the IFS box would mount and to make sure the pitman arm wouldn't hit my panhard bar mount. The pitman arm I bought from polyperformance.com, they get it from sky-manufacturing, it's reamed for the chevy TRE but not the DLE, I had bought the correct reamer already so I just reamed it out for the DLE. After all that, I welded on the plates on each side, the inside I just pretty much filled the gaps between those flared out portions and the plate. I installed the IFS box and noticed that I had to trim down the forward mounting bolt due to how close it was to the radiator hose and I THINK I cut down the nut too.
Pitman arm: The pitman arm and box combo offers enough throw for a D44's steering.
Hoses: I purchased hoses from PSC motorsports, I bought the high pressure hoses that you can put together yourself. The fittings on the box are 16mm inverted flare(HP) and 17mm inverted flare(LP). I bought the adapter fitting for the HP side to go to -an 6 and a straight hose barb for the low pressure side. The hose barb touches a bolt on the a/c compressor... and that's after I cut that bolt's stud off. So to fix that, i'm going to make a spacer plate to space out the box a little more from the frame and try out a 45* and 90* hose barb. The stock 5.0L PS pump will work, ford calls it their CIII pump. I tried to use the piece that goes into the pump on the stock hose and a 16mm o-ring type adapter fitting I had. I cut off the 16mm part of the adapter, drilled a hole the size of the hard line on the stock hose, then I put the hard line in there and welded it to what was left of the adapter. I actually couldn't test this setup since I didn't know that my replacement PS pump was a no go, plus I didn't know how if that welded part of the adapter would flow that well. So I found a place after looking through many forums who makes an adapter from the ciii pump to -an 6. The company's name is Lee Manufacturing, they deal with power steering setups. I ordered the adapter and bought a sealing washer they sell, that washer replaces the teflon washer that goes on the original fitting. His number is (818) 768-0371, he's located in California. After I got that fitting, I ran the HP hose I made to the steering box, the LP side goes to some 3/8" hose to my stock power steering cooler that's currently only zip tied to my new crossmember I made, then from the cooler back to the stock reservior. I've also got my setup done for hydraulic assist.
Steering shaft: I didn't want to skimp here and weld two shafts together. Let's go back a little bit, with the torque monster headers and my 3" body lift, the steering extension for the body lift would NOT clear the headers, so the fix this problem, I ordered a collapsable "D" shaft from borgeson and their mustang single u-joint. This solution worked well, I had to remove some material from inside the u-joint because it doesn't fit our explorer's rack 100%. I did have slight rubbing, depending on where the steering wheel was turned too, of the bolt that holds the D shaft to the steering shaft coming out of the firewall on the header. Since i've had experience with the borgeson stuff, I picked up another piece of telescopic shaft and a 11/16-36 spline u-joint(toyota IFS box joint) and built another steering shaft.
Performance: Even without the ram hooked up, it does a decent job turning the 39.5s on pavement. With the ram it's absolutely amazing. Problem is that I can't turn all the way to the right, that's because my tires rub on the pitman arm. I ordered some wheel spacers to hopefully fix that problem even after I space out the box from the frame to clear the compressor bolt. Do note that my front D44 is a 77 F-150 44 that I cut down approx 6" on the pass side.

Out of all the things I did on the SAS, i'd have to say that the steering box was the hardest part for me to do. I definately recommend removing the radiator for more space down there when welding but to also periodically set it back in there to see what kind of space you're working with.

The rest of my steering is a high steer setup using parts mike super arms on flat top knuckles, all chevy "1-ton" TRE and DLE, inverted T steering setup, 1.5" OD 1/4" wall DOM with weld in bungs. Problems with other high steer arms are that they don't move the tie rod out front enough, it'll hit the coils, but I don't know if that'll be a problem with coil overs or if you're even going to go high steer. I'd say making it high steer ended up being more of a headache than anything else. If you look at my tie rod and panhard bar, they're REALLY close to the bottom of the oil pan, they isn't very much real estate down there. Another thing is that even though i'm running an inverted T, there's no way I could have pushed the panhard bar mount on the frame out any further or made my panhard mount on the axle and furher away so I could run a panhard bar of equal length and equal angle to the drag link. You might not have this problem, it all really depends on the radius arms you use or how your suspension links mount, since you're going coilovers, they make brackets that weld to the axle tube and the inner knuckle so at least those will be spaced away.
Everything on the steering and panhard bars are fully adjustable so it can be aligned(toe) and I can adjust axle placement(side to side). I haven't experienced much bump steer but I think I can attribute that to the hydraulic ram.

Things I haven't fixed yet: My radius arm's tubes are pretty close to the torsion bar pad(greenish blue thing) retainer AND it doesn't look like a front d/s would clear the xmsn crossmember so i'm planning on making a new crossmember that'll clear the d/s, eliminate the torsion bar pad retainer, AND use a polyurethane xmsn mount because my stock one was completely annihilated to the point where my drivetrain lifted up and slammed into the floor of the truck.

Like you and everyone else said above, our frames are pretty straight so... to have enough room below the oil pan and frame rails, you'll still end up with a tall explorer, my explorer has a 3" BL so if you did do an SAS, yours would at least not be so tall.

I hope this helps you on your SAS, i'll take some pictures of it when I get back from colorado(i'm currently on pre deployment leave). If you have any questions, i'll be glad to help.
 






Fusion, thanks for the detailed post and I look forward to your pictures if you have time.

I've been very busy with the waggy last few nights, finished it up tonight.

We pulled the front axle and leaf springs, vacuum switch and hoses for the disconnect, a few fuses, the wheels and tires.

All the rest is on a trailer bound for the recycler tomorrow. We pulled the radiator, battery and easy aluminum parts, they are worth more individually.

I have the axle sitting on jackstands, leaves still attached, just got it out from under there. The Arkansas state bird, the mosquito was out in full force tonight and working on that thing was treacherous.

I've decided to convert to 5 lug Ford pattern, the 5 on 4.5 to 6 on 5.5 adapters I don't know about them. I'd eventually like to convert the 8.8 to a super 88 and change the bolt pattern to match then. Until then the simpler adapter will be much better. Plus, the studs on the waggy axle are pitifully small.

Pictures of the uninstall and axle tomorrow- I left my camera at the shop.
 






All in all it was an easy tear down!
 






I nearly forgot, we did the teardown in ~3 hours, spent some of that time whacking stuff with hammers :D

The only snag was removing the leaf spring hanger bolts, they were and are seized in the sleeve in the springs. We had to cut the shackles and hangers to get the springs loose.
 






Toy IFS Box

Here's those pictures I said I'd get you.

The last picture on this post shows you how little room there is between the front box mount bolt and the radiator hose.

I haven't made that spacer plate yet either so it's still rubbing on the a/c compressor.
 

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This picture is just of the stock power steering cooler re-used and zip tied in place.
 

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Just so you know the FJ60 box is the same shape as the toyota truck box. The pitman arm faces forward though. May or may not help with clearance.
 






Thanks for the pictures- It looks like it'd be a pain without a body lift though :( The header panel would be in the way of the lines. It's a very nice looking install though :thumbsup: I like the way your steering shaft came out especially.

RockRanger- I can't see how I can use a forward facing steering box- it'd be right in the way of where I need to mount my panhard bracket and coilovers.

BTW, I'm watching your 3 link build, I'm not too far behind you.

There just isn't much room there to mount stuff up there on the frame.
 






Let me see how much clearance you MIGHT have without the body lift. I realized that without a body lift, you'd most likely be clear of the bolt to radiator hose issue because I didn't drop my radiator down after the body lift(I actually did but... it ended up getting cracked offroad because it was too low), I just dropped my shroud down.
 












Sky manufacturing, the "less than stock" drop model.
 






Sky manufacturing, the "less than stock" drop model.

Yeah- I re-read your post and found that :rolleyes: This gets overwhelming after you read so much at so many places.

Pictures of the axle removal and Heep haul off:

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The Heep weighed out at 4,000 lbs, the big ole trailer weighs 2800 itself. :eek: I tipped the scales at 12k. It pulled surprisingly well, but it was only a 6 mile trip :D
 



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Axle teardown and cleanup begins Mon or Tues.

I've located some Cheby spindles, Ford rotors, calipers, brake pads, lockout hubs for a good deal :thumbsup:

I need some 5 on 5.5 hubs (where are you JamesT?) to complete my conversion.

I'm going to run Cragar Soft 8's 16x8. I wish they had 9" wide wheels, but they only have 10's and they are too wide for my tires. 8" will be fine though. Gotta find some good looking center caps.

Does anyone have any good tips or links for suspension design info? I can't really find any books on the subject. I'm sure there is some math and geometry involved here, like link length, 3 link vs y link design, etc. I'd like to get the bestest setup I can get from the beginning.

Still on the lookout for some 10" coilovers, I'll probably run dual rate springs, need to figure out what rate springs to run.

Front end weighs 2600 lbs, take away unsprung weight, around 2400lbs. Then remove front diff, drop brackets, skid plate, torsion bars and it'd be near 2200lbs. I think :scratch: I tried calculators on coilover sites, none offer any insight into what to use for a solid axle. I can see what rates rick used, that may be close enough.
 






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