cam chain guides HELP!!

[alncindi]

I have a 1997 explorer sport. A few weeks ago I went to start it up and it would not run right. It was spitting and sputtering and the motor was making a dieseling noise. I figured "oxygen sensor" I took it to the local ford dealer and today I get the call....."You need a new motor" $4200.00!!!! I went to the dealership to discuss the situation. what the mechanic showed me I could not believe. There are two cam chain guides on the front of the motor. both plastic and both broken. There is a third cam chain guide on the rear of the motor. Also plastic and also broken. Apparently they determined the guide at the rear broke and got down in the motor causing the left side of the motor (looking at it from the front)
to seize up. They said FORD will only warrant the right front guide. My explorer only had 68k miles on it, I have kept the oil changed and the radiator and filters fresh. This thing looks brand new, Heck I even used to armorall under the hood. I have never had any problems out of it and all of a sudden 1 day it just
bites the dust. This is not right! can any one out there give me any info on who I might be able to contact at Ford about this? I had the cam chain tensioner recall done last year and that fixed the rattling problem last year, but the rattle came back about 2 weeks before I had the trouble with it not staying running. These guides are defective and should be covered by a warranty, The mechanic told me they install guides with metal on them now in 99 models and up. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED ON THIS ISSUE. I AM TRYING TO GET TOGETHER SOME INFO THAT I CAN GO TO FORD WITH AND GET SOME ASSISTANCE.

 

[Magicfan25]

I dont think it says anywhere in the info they sent that only a certain tensioner was covered. the information I got said tensionerS, plural!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you have the stuff ford sent out on the extended warranty on the timing chain tensioners? If not lemme know, I think mines in my warranty book in the car.

 

[Robert]

The letter to Ford Service Centers does not mention two cam chain guides on the front so I do not know if there are two or one. There is at least one at the rear though as you have been told. The letter to Ford does state that "On some of the affected vehicles, the front cam chain guide assembly may wear or break and cause excessive cam chain noise that does not go away after five minutes of operation". There are two phone numbers on the letter to the dealer. They are Claims Information (800) 423-8851 and Special Service Support Center (800) 325-5621. These are Ford only numbers so they may not be too helpful but maybe they can answer some questions. Ford dealers are instructed to call the Special Service Center for authorization before replacing an engine that has failed due to a broken guide. Unfortunately there is no mention in any of the letters to the Ford Dealer regarding the rear guide so you will likely have a long uphill battle getting them to cover it.

How did they determine the rear failed? Is (are) the front guide(s) still intact? I would definately want to inspect them myself. If they did not fail and the rear did infact fail, I don't think you will get anywhere other than the argument that the front plastic guides have been proven to be problematic. Since the rear guides are made out of plastic as well and are subject to the same conditions the front guides are, it can be argued that they are just as faulty. It would probably take a lawsuit though for that to happen. You can try and get "goodwill assistance". All manufacturer's have the option of picking up some of the bill in circumstances like this. Usually this will only occur up to 50K miles, but sometimes they go the extra mile.

There is a defect warranty that is not time/mileage restricted. It would take a lawsuit to prove that the rear guide was just as defective as the front guide. It would also probably take a very good lawyer to successfully prove your case. The more people he had to represent, the better his chances. Try and find others with similar circumstances and see what their resolution was. Merely find a case where Ford picked up the tab on someone elses engine damage caused by a rear guide failure and you stand a much better chance at success. Sometimes all it takes is a letter from an attorney to get them to reconsider.

Good luck

 

[procyon]

Please tell us their reasoning for the conclusion that the rear cam chain guide broke first.

Robert, the crankshaft has a chain up to the jackshaft with a tensioner and guide on it. Then the jackshaft has a cam chain drive to the left head at the front of the engine. The jackshaft goes to the rear of the engine for a cam chain drive to the right hand side head.

Owner Notification Program 01M01 addresses failures of the LH (front) cam chain drive. ONP 00M12 addresses intake manifold gaskets and the cam chain drive tensioners.

 

[Robert]

Looking at the engine drawings I can see that there are three chains. I wasn't sure if there was one or two on the front though since the letter to the Dealer only calls it the "Front Cam Chain Guide". The replacement procedures doesn't even mention the guide on the lower chain or the rear chain. I would like to know how does Ford justify that the rear one isn't a problem since it probably uses the same setup as the front guide, only in reverse.

 

[alncindi]

Hey guy's thanks for the info and support. I contacted FORD's customer assistance line and spoke to them about my situation. At first they tried to blow it off as "sorry the recall and extended warranty only covered the right front cam chain guide". I explained to them that this was not right!! I have never had any problems from the vehicle, I keep it in excellent shape and the oil is changed regularly as are the filters and it essentially looks brand new and now all of a sudden I am told I need a new motor because a plastic piece, that is known to be defective, breaks off in the engine? I asked them to explain to me how the front guide would be any different from the rear. and since all 3 had cracked and broken how do they determine that the front one breaking didn't cause the rear to break? I was put on hold for a while and then they picked back up and said FORD would assist me with the repairs but the dealer would be contacting me to let me know how much.
I have pictures of the engine apart and the broken guides if any one wants them for future refrence let me know and I'll e-mail them to you.

 

[Ray Lobato]

I would like to see those pictures. Would you send them to me?
Thanks
Ray@explorerforum.com

 

[alncindi]

sure I'll send 'em to you. Good news too. Ford has agreed to put a new engine in for $800.00 I think thats fair. I told the service manager when all this started that I realize it's 5 years old and I didn't expect to get a brand new motor for free, but the explorer would have still been running fine if it had not been for the defective PLASTIC cam chain guides.

 

[yob_yeknom]

So all us prior '99 guys still have plastic guides on the passenger side?

How convenient that they only replaced the one up front where it is much easier to get to than the one on the rear.

Does anyone even know why Ford used that setup? I've never heard of having one cam driven from the front and the other from the rear of the engine.

 

[Robert]

The one in the rear probably requires removing the engine to get to. Since it isn't an actual recall Ford isn't going to go through the expense of replacing all of them. They will take it on a case by case basis starting with the Dealership. Most people will take what their Dealer is telling them as fact and pay them to put a new engine in. They will then deal with the few that object. Unless the NHTSA forces Ford to issue a recall for both sets of plastic guides, people will continue to experience problems with them. My '97 has close to 92K miles on it and it isn't very confidence inspiring to think that if one of my guides breaks at 105K miles and destroys my engine, that Ford will basically say "too bad you have over 100K miles on it" when the fact remains that my engine would have still been running had it not been for the plastic guides. I would like to get the metal guides put in now before the plastic ones break. Unfortunately Ford says not until they break and then only if I have less than 100K miles on it.

 

[Jon_Herr]

Pictures

Would you please post the pics to the board or send them to me? Thanks in advance!


It is really depressing to me to hear that Ford has taken this stance over a design issue.

Sounds to me like they're sticking their collective heads in the sand and hoping that enough time and miles will pass before they have to deal with it.

Then, like one of you guys have said, they can hide behind "Well, you did get 100K miles on it before it blew."

If this becomes the case then I personally will not be a repeat customer....

 

[powerstroke]

WHEN YOU HAD THE PROBLEM DID IT SOUND LIKE SOMETHING WAS CAUGHT IN THE FAN? MINE IS MAKING A GOD AWFUL RATTLING NOISE, CAN'T EVEN DRIVE IT. PLEASE ADVISE THANKS!

 

[Robert]

I have never heard it personally but from the Ford letter to the Dealership it states that once you've heard it you will never forget it. It is very noticeable and does not go away after 5 minutes of ideling. I got pretty much the same reply from my local Ford Service Advisor when I asked him about it. He said it is a very loud rattling noise coming from the front of your engine. Personnaly, I hope I never have to hear it.

 

[Jon_Herr]

I have heard it

It sounds like marbles rolling around inside your block.

A very deep, heavy metal on metal sound.

 

[alncindi]

It sounds like you are starting a diesel engine, Jon was right also, it sounds like marbles rolling around in there.
I got my explorer back 2 weeks after I started this posting. My final cost for a new engine was $500.00
quite a bit less than the $4200.00 I was first quoted. I kept in touch with the service manager and let him know I knew what I was talking about (thanks to everyones postings) and they put a new engine in and my explorer runs great.

 

[Jon_Herr]

Owner

Are you the original owner?

 

[alncindi]

no, It was 2 years old when I bought it from the dealership.

 

[prad2000]

Help Please

I am in sunnyvale CA and my explorer broke 10 days back at the hwy. towed to the garage and got a call from garage that Timing chain is the problem. he says ford had some recall on it.

My truck has 125000 on it now. 97 eddie bauae.

What should I do ?

Thanks in Advance

Pradeep

 

[Robert]

What broke, the cam chain guide or timing chain? Neither one of them had a recall though but the cam chain guide did get their warranty exteneded to 7 years/100K miles due to failures. With 125K miles on your Explorer, you would be hard pressed to find a Ford dealer that is willing to help. If it was a cam chain guide failure that caused the damage, then a good lawyer might have a good case against Ford since the ones used in '97 & '98 were known to be problematic. Unfortunately you don't qualify based on mileage alone. Since it wasn't a recall Ford is under no obligation to help. I wish I had better news. My '97 SOHC has 91K and so far the cam chain guides haven't given me any problems. If I loose mine at 105K miles I will be quite upset. My camshaft tensioners are another story though. After the third replacement set was installed 40K miles ago, my engine is finally quiet.

 

[prad2000]

Help

I talked to the garage. (right now the truck is in another garage, I have not towed it to ford).

He says, that it looks to them that the tensionars are bad and may have caused other damage.

he said, that opening the whole thing would cost lot of time and money. he asked me to talk to ford and see what they can do about it, otherwise he says we need to replace the engine altogther.

I am a newbie. I did not had any problem with this truck (I have had it only for 3 months, 5000 miles ).

I bought it from a guy, who said, he was not aware of any recall etc, and did not take any.

pls advise.

Thanks

Pradeep