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Drivers window wont stop automatically

rasouth

Well-Known Member
Joined
July 29, 2015
Messages
345
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City, State
Riverside, CA
Year, Model & Trim Level
96 Explorer XLT 4.0 OHV
Hey everybody! I have a '96 4-door 4WD XLT. The drivers side window works going up and going down. No slow points, no squeaks... BUT... It wont stop automatically when fully up or fully down. The motor can be heard util I stop pressing the button. (Oh BTW... The auto down does not seem to work, but it has been that way for a while.) It does not really bug me, I just release the button when it reaches the top or bottom. I was curious if there is some sort of stop switch or power disconnect that automatically stops the window motor when the window reaches its destination. I have taken the door panel off and looked but I did not see anything broken, no broken teeth on scissor lift for window... Of course I was looking inside with a mirror and a flash light and might have missed something.
 



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We ran across a thread detailing reprogramming the auto-up/down function last summer. We wanted to disable it due to issues with the flashing 4WD lights on the dash. I can't seem to locate it now. The search function on this site has always been disappointing to me. Maybe you'll have better luck. I found this generic answer. Perhaps it'll help in asking the right search function parameters.

How to Reset Automatic Windows | YourMechanic Advice

Good luck!
Team TARDIS
 






I found this screenshot from nearly two years ago. We didn't have any luck with it.

Screen Shot 10-11-17 at 01.28 PM.PNG

Team TARDIS
 






There's also a relay under the dash that controls the auto function. We defeated the auto function by modifying the relay but we lost the rear window defroster in the process. It cured our flashing 4WD lights which was what we wanted. If we pulled the relay the window lost all power. We removed two tabs to eliminate the auto function.

That's all we've got!

Good luck!
Team TARDIS

01 Relays Underdash.jpg

02 Underdash Relays.jpg
 






Thanks for the info on the auto down function! That might help me figure out what is wrong. My main concern was why the motor keeps running, and not stopping automatically, after the window reaches the top or the bottom if the button is being pushed.
I tried using the search function here but found only one post that had the same problem but no solution.
 












Thanks for the info on the auto down function! That might help me figure out what is wrong. My main concern was why the motor keeps running, and not stopping automatically, after the window reaches the top or the bottom if the button is being pushed.

?? I've had several vehicles that do this, by design, not some fault. The motor continues to apply pressure to the window as long as the button is pressed. There is no limit switch to stop this. The motor keeps getting power as long as the switch is held down but is in a stalled state where it just applies torque.

If you mean it starts free wheeling (motor spinning a lot) instead of just continuing to apply pressure to the window in the direction it's going, then you probably have the gears or plastic pucks torn up a bit in the motor's gear housing. If it's a gear you need a new motor, but probably the pucks and Dorman makes a kit of those, available at many auto parts stores and online. They may call them a "gear plug" but it's Dorman 74410

Edit: I forgot that Dorman also sells a kit with the gear (pucks included), at least the big plastic gear, not the mating metal motor shaft portion, BUT I'm not sure if they make one for 2nd gen Explorers. I know the pucks-alone 3-pack kit 74410 does fit 2nd gen Explorers.
 






OP - I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If the window switch is depressed and held in either position the widow motor will continue to run until the glass is all the way UP or DN and will continue to try to run even when the glass is all the way UP or DN if you don't let go of the switch.

The driver's window "auto" function should only work in the DN direction and only if you press DN and then release it quickly. There is no "auto UP" function designed into the system. There are little "beans" which connect the window motor's gear to the motor, with age these "beans" can wear out and cause the gear to slip, which I guess could cause the motor to run even when the glass hits it's stops. Is this what your encountering???
 






Why not disconnect the window motor and use a test light then you will be able to isolate the motor and rule out the rest of the truck relays etc...
 






This problem could be electrical or mechanical. Self-resetting circuit breakers are often used in place of fuses in window circuits because they actually serve two purposes. They not only protect the circuit from overload, but also open the circuit when the window seats into the window frame or the base of its travel. They also eliminate the need to have physical limit switches built into the window mechanism. When there is a circuit overload caused by hitting the travel limit, a faulty gasket, motor, or regulator the circuit breaker opens from the excessive current, cools and allows the motor to temporarily move the window just a little bit until the breaker heats up and opens again. If the CB is faulty and doesn't trip as designed the motor will continue to try to run at the end limit as long as you hold the switch on. These devices usually are called resettable fuses that are a passive electronic component called a PPTC and is buried inside the window motor itself in order to quickly detect the heat from an overload. It's also possible that Ford doesn't use this type of CB, in which case you can ignore this post.
 






Everybody has given me some good feedback. Thank you. I understand that the motor will continue to try to exert pressure when the window is fully up or down when the button is pressed, but with mine the motor sounds as if there is a tooth missing and cannot grab it and keeps running. My window goes up or down with no problem, no hesitation, no slow spots or sounding as if it struggling to overcome a heavy load. The motor just wants to keep spinning when it reaches the top or bottom until I release the button. I would think that if there was a tooth missing or damaged, either on the motor or the window mechanism, the motor would spin freely when it reached the missing or damaged area, and would not be able to grab the next tooth without having to moving the window by hand to overcome the damaged area. This happens at the top and bottom of its travel range and started all at once, leading me to think it is not a broken or damaged tooth. Two broken teeth, one at the top and one at the bottom, at the same time? Plus I looked as best as I could inside and did not see any missing or damaged teeth on window mechanism. Couldn't get a good look at motor because of the location of window mechanism.
Koda2000... I will check the "beans" theory, and yes it does sound as if the gear may be slipping.
jmops... I will do a little more digging into the relays and circuit breakers.
 






TL;DR: That's not how PPTC's are used and wouldn't account for this fault.


It's very unlikely to be a PPTC resettable fuse for a number of reasons. PPTC's are used in circuits where there is an extreme state/abuse, a last ditch effort to save the device. They do not trip in the normal operation of the device and have to be rated for a temperature fairly high above the normal operating state.

Otherwise, you'd have extremely delayed protection from it in winter yet it would always trip in summer because of the temperature difference. A motor in a stalled state just wouldn't build up heat THAT fast to operate as a window stop.

Further, they cannot withstand constant operating cycles, have a fairly limited number of resets possible, lower than a window circuit would need. Their specs can tell you a wildly high # for # of resets possible but this is repetitive in a lab environment rather than exposed to a real world circuit where they receive thermal cycling constantly, even without tripping, and cannot be used as a stop limit for a highly repetitive circuit state.

When one blows, it continues to pass a hold current and typically will not reset until power is disconnected from the circuit and several seconds pass for it to cool down. This is not the operation seen in windows where the user may put it all the way up and right away want it back down, so it is doubtful that any auto manufacturer would use one as a stop limit for window travel even if any of the other factors wasn't present.

Plus, if one fails it practically always fails to an open circuit state which would mean if the theory of stopping the motor at the end of travel by a PPTC was plausible, a failure of the PPTC would mean the motor no longer works at all. It's not impossible for the thermal activation range to drift or for it to have a delayed response to thermal changes, but usually the user would never notice this as these ranges are set so high above normal operating temperature.

That's just not how PPTC's are used in circuits. They are only to stop operation from a fault. That fault could be user input, holding a window switch down and keeping it help down till a motor overheated, but for the reasons stated above, that's not related to the fault rasouth is observing.

Lastly, PPTC failure is fairly predictable and we would be seeing many different 2nd gen Explorer owners having the same failure by now, so much so that it could be called "like clockwork" or a "wear item".

If anyone is interested, here is an Application Note linked below for how to best implement PPTC's in a window circuit, and it's not in the motor, rather an area that does not experience significant thermal changes like a motor would every time it operates. That may seem counter-intuitive but comes back to the reliability of the polyswitch when exposed to equipment operating state temperature changes, and protects against other overcurrent events besides just a stalled motor such as a short circuit in wiring, relay, or switch (or transistor or other in newer more sophisticated circuits than our ~20 y/o vehicles have):

https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/...trol_switch_consoles_application_note.pdf.pdf

I'm not suggesting that window motors don't have PPTC's in them. Some definitely do, but are not meant to trip at all and would not account for the problem stated in this topic.

If you want to use a thermal limiter for high cycle count circuits, use a bimetallic switch if it must be passive, to avoid the increased cost and complexity of active temperature feedback for a microcontroller... but it still wouldn't work for an end-of-travel limiter on a window, the response time is still way too slow.
 






With Koda2000 suggestion of the gear slipping I put the window up half way and put a little pressure on it with my hand and pressed the button and the motor slipped. So the motor works but it must be the gear that is slipping when there is a little resistance. This means it is not the electrical side of the problem. Thanks everybody for the info.
And for some unknown reason the auto down works now. Go figure.
 






Dorman makes replacement "beans/pucks" for the window gear. Not a big fan of Dorman stuff, but they're cheaper than a replacement motor/motor regulator. You can find them on eBay (with or w/out a new gear). When they're worn they look like small kidney beans, I also recommend you spray your window channels with silicon periodically (maybe once a year) to reduce drag. I like Liquid Wrench brand foaming silicon,

s-l1600.jpg
 






Yep.... when those pucks wear out, they look like plastic sawdust.
 






I found a gear replacement online for about $12 or a motor for about $30. Not sure which way to go.
I usually spray the window tracks in all my cars with a little silicone spray now and then.
Thanks again for the info, guys!
 






I found a gear replacement online for about $12 or a motor for about $30. Not sure which way to go.
I usually spray the window tracks in all my cars with a little silicone spray now and then.
Thanks again for the info, guys!

In my experience the OE motors seem to last forever. I'd probably just go for the pucks, or pucks with a new gear.
 






Don't replace any window motor if possible. The Ford motors are better and more reliable than any others, essentially the motor section doesn't wear out for decades(unless you lay on the buttons after the window is up or down). The plastic gear parts are meant to wear out way sooner than the motor, those should be replaced in every Ford, at say ten year intervals.

The three little pucks should cost about $6 or so at parts stores, the gear assembly used to be about $25, now I see around $15 is common. Dorman is part of the price drops, their low quality parts have taken over in many ways, and other brands are either lowering their prices, or not making the parts anymore.
 






The less “aftermarket parts” (read: junk), the better. If you can rebuild or restore the Ford part, you are way better off than buying aftermarket I can’t believe the low quality of so much of the aftermarket stuff....
 



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