Excessive tire play by hand with front end off ground & steering wheel locked???

[84FLH]

Hi everyone.

2000 Monty. SOHC. 4WD.

Went for tire balancing at local tire shop.

They called me into the garage bay. Front end was up on floor jack.

Mechanic was able to move passenger front tire sideways (3 & 9 o'clock) 3-4" by hand.

Tire moved same amount at 12 and 6 o'clock positions.

They said bring it back for full front end inspection. So I did.

NOW they tell me there's nothing wrong ... and the tire movement was because the steering wheel was locked!

This blows my 70 yo mind! How the ---- does a tiee wobble when the steering wheel is locked!?

AFAIK, a locked steering wheel doesn't disconnect from the steering column, steering box, rack, etc!

Again, AFAIK, a locked steering wheel also locks the tires, either left or right; and those tires shouldn't move, especially 3-4" left/right or up/down.

Am I missing something here???

Thanks, everyone.

 

[410Fortune]

The first guy was a moron

Only play in the inner and out toe rods will allow the tire to move when the steering wheel is locked and 3-4” is basically impossible. 1” is more like it with worn tie rod ends

The play at 12 and 6 o clock is usually ball joints

Any shop should be able to do a
Simple front end shake down test. I can tell you in 3 minutes if you need wheel bearings, inner or outer tie rod ends, or upper or lower ball joints

 

[84FLH]

Thanks, Fortune. Wish I could drop it off at your mountain retreat.

These guys are hit or miss. They're ok for tires but that's about it.

Are you saying there should basically be no play in the tires at 3-9 and 12-6 with steering wheel locked?

(Maybe it was only 1" or so in both directions. Seemed like a mile.)

If 1" tie rod play does exist with steering wheel locked, how unsafe is it to drive?

How can I test front end in my driveway?

Thanks again.

I will drive that Sun road in Glacier one of these days.

The first guy was a moron

Only play in the inner and out toe rods will allow the tire to move when the steering wheel is locked and 3-4” is basically impossible. 1” is more like it with worn tie rod ends

The play at 12 and 6 o clock is usually ball joints

Any shop should be able to do a
Simple front end shake down test. I can tell you in 3 minutes if you need wheel bearings, inner or outer tie rod ends, or upper or lower ball joints

 

[410Fortune]

So basically you can have about 1/4-1/2” in play maximum. Any more than this is excessive .

Your eyeballs watch the steering linkage as you move the tire
Your eyes can watch the ball joints as you move the tire

Having a helper is a good idea, they can move the tire while you watch

Both front tires off the ground
Grab at 3 and 9 positions and move it back and forth. Any play in inner and outer tie rods will be visible
Same thing at 12 and 6 o clock, any play in ball joints, upper control arms, will be visible

Any play in wheel bearings will also be visible… if the wheel moves excessive while the ball joints stay firm.. then that’s a wheel bearing

Let me look on YouTube for a simple front end shake down test video

Other things that can allow excessive movement that are less Common and slightly harder to spot would be rack and pinion bushings,
Lower control arm bushings, steering shaft rag joint

Grabbing a tire and moving it can be tough (requires strength) but with tire just 2” off the ground you can put a pry bar underneath, that helps with the 12 and 6 o clock position test

 

[84FLH]

So basically you can have about 1/4-1/2” in play maximum. Any more than this is excessive .

Your eyeballs watch the steering linkage as you move the tire
Your eyes can watch the ball joints as you move the tire

Having a helper is a good idea, they can move the tire while you watch

Both front tires off the ground
Grab at 3 and 9 positions and move it back and forth. Any play in inner and outer tie rods will be visible
Same thing at 12 and 6 o clock, any play in ball joints, upper control arms, will be visible

Any play in wheel bearings will also be visible… if the wheel moves excessive while the ball joints stay firm.. then that’s a wheel bearing

Let me look on YouTube for a simple front end shake down test video

Other things that can allow excessive movement that are less Common and slightly harder to spot would be rack and pinion bushings,
Lower control arm bushings, steering shaft rag joint

Grabbing a tire and moving it can be tough (requires strength) but with tire just 2” off the ground you can put a pry bar underneath, that helps with the 12 and 6 o clock position test

Thanks, Fortune.

Will do it all if I can later today. If not then on weekend.

Will report results here.

Indebted to you, again, for your knowledge and willingness to help.

My first 410 was a Savage O/U when I was 14.

PS: Is your test process with or
without steering wheel locked?

 

[410Fortune]

Wheel locked… otherwise it will just turn back and forth lol

My last name is fortune
So when pagers first came out in the 90s we all had 3 digit codes so you knew who was calling … mine became four one zero or
“Four ten”. Then like 1997? the internet was created and I needed a username to log into “AOL online” 410fortune stuck
Now it’s 410customs because 410fortune sounds lame hahaha and I build complete custom trucks

You are welcome!

I live way back in the woods and I’ve been wanting an over under 10 gauge with a 22 … that is the perfect gun for walking around the woods and “survivaling”
As they say… 22 for varmits, rabbits, shotgun for geese ducks and grouse or the moose lion wolf bear like we have back here.
Right now I carry a 45 for protection against said moose cat and bears. I should have a 10mm because it’s a faster round and will stop a moose whereas a 45 is a little slow, will still stop a moose but not as well. You learn a lot living back here…. A stainless mosberg would Also be a great idea or a revolver.. with a shotgun or revolver the first few rounds can be non lethal rubber bullets to hopefully detour the moose before you have to drop it
Nothing scarier then a large moose charging… or a 180# cat
I’ve always avoided having a revolver because we had young children around and they are not nearly as safe as a semi auto. The problem is a semi auto won’t re chamber the next round wheel firing non lethals. So that’s why a revolver or shotgun is best for defense back here. Moose are crazy. I’ve been charged a couple of times, behind the wheel of a utv…
Never had to fire a shot yet.. just keep backing up hahaha only thing I’ve shot at so far is coyotes trying to get our chickens and I used a few rounds to scare off a young g hawk after it already killed one of our birds but it was too heavy for it to carry away

The coyote I missed with my 45 of course at about 30 yards but he ran off… woke up everyone on the house at 5 am that was a good one. Kids jump out of bed quick when you slide the glass door open and start popping off your 45 hahahaha the hawk I just shot the ground near it to keep
Scaring it away… it would only
Fly about 15 yards at a time.. it kept wanting to come back for the chicken it killed … poor bird had to go home empty handed

 

[84FLH]

Wheel locked… otherwise it will just turn back and forth lol

My last name is fortune
So when pagers first came out in the 90s we all had 3 digit codes so you knew who was calling … mine became four one zero or
“Four ten”. Then like 1997? the internet was created and I needed a username to log into “AOL online” 410fortune stuck
Now it’s 410customs because 410fortune sounds lame hahaha and I build complete custom trucks

You are welcome!

I live way back in the woods and I’ve been wanting an over under 10 gauge with a 22 … that is the perfect gun for walking around the woods and “survivaling”
As they say… 22 for varmits, rabbits, shotgun for geese ducks and grouse or the moose wolf bear like we have back here.
Right now I carry a 45 for protection against said moose and bears. I should have a 10mm because it’s a faster round and will stop a moose whereas a 45 is a little slow, will still stop a moose but not as well. You learn a lot living back here….

Wheel locked. Thanks.

How unsafe to drive 55-65 mph if I find 1" play at 3-9 o'clock?

Your neighborhood sounds like an adventure and peaceful retreat all at once.

The Alaska site Outdoors Forum (??) hunters mostly say for bear/moose protection, carry any caliber that starts with "4".

.475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger, etc show TONS of muzzle lift. Can't see anyone getting a fast follow up shot with that recoil.

I'd have to go with 6-7" S&W 44 mag, tops; and say my prayers real good every day.

 

[SofaKing95]

I will drive that Sun road in Glacier one of these days.

Yikes...hopefully not with this rig in it's current "unknown" condition
Also...find a better shop. The work you are talking about could be handled by a 1st year automotive VoTech high school student.

 

[410Fortune]

Decent short video
Of how it’s done and where to look

Moving to north Idaho off the grid 23 acre homestead on a river was the best move I ever made. We left Colorado where we lived at 9000’ and everything was granite mountain. Now I have water everywhere and it’s all sand.. tempered rainforest but not nearly as much sunshine… still best move ever. I was an Eagle Scout and my career had me flying a desk for 30 years so we wanted to live where we would camp. We made it happen. It has its challenges but nothing that won’t make us stronger

 

[410Fortune]

1” of play in tie rods not good
You will notice excessive tire wear and the truck will wobble in corners.. shouldn’t drive far with that much movement

 

[84FLH]

Not with this

Yikes...hopefully not with this rig in it's current "unknown" condition
Also...find a better shop. The work you are talking about could be handled by a 1st year automotive VoTech high school student.

View attachment 463782

vehicle, sir.

With as yet to buy flatbed F350 gas, with truck camper and outrigger boxes in camper's recessed sides for more storage.

 

[410Fortune]

Flatbed is the only way to go
Factory bed so much wasted
Space just for cosmetic reasons

Once you go flatbed you never go back

Here is my shop truck / one of my babies, doing what she does best… hauling rangers and ranger based vehicles

 

[SofaKing95]

We left Colorado where we lived at 9000’ and everything was granite mountain.

If you don't mind...where in Colorado and for how long? Planning a move back there someday (El Paso county or Estes) after living there in the late 90's and early 00's (Westminster & Denver)...although I'm a little leary based on some of the cultural changes. If you'd rather not say, I understand.

 

[84FLH]

If you don't mind...where in Colorado and for how long? Planning a move back there someday (El Paso county or Estes) after living there in the late 90's and early 00's (Westminster & Denver)...although I'm a little leary based on some of the cultural changes. If you'd rather not say, I understand.

Colorado legislature has introduced a bill to ban sales of all semi-auto firearms.

Don't know current status of the bill.

Despite the incredible beauty of the state, I wouldn't live there if they were to pay me a million $; considering their legislative history

 

[84FLH]

If you don't mind...where in Colorado and for how long? Planning a move back there someday (El Paso county or Estes) after living there in the late 90's and early 00's (Westminster & Denver)...although I'm a little leary based on some of the cultural changes. If you'd rather not say, I understand.

Colorado legislature has introduced a bill to ban sales of all semi-auto firearms.

Don't know current status of the bill.

Despite the incredible beauty of the state, I wouldn't live there if they were to pay me a million $; considering their legislative hist

Flatbed is the only way to go
Factory bed so much wasted
Space just for cosmetic reasons

Once you go flatbed you never go back

Here is my shop truck / one of my babies, doing what she does best… hauling rangers and ranger based vehicles

View attachment 463784

Nice OBS Ford. What is wrong with the Ranger's front tire?

A lot of house to heat in the ID winter!

 

[410Fortune]

That red ranger was rolled low mile 2007 I parted it out kept the seats used the engine a trans to put another truck back on the road

My 97 7.3 obs srw 5’speed 4wd I love that thing. I have 3ea 7.3 diesels the obs 4 door, 01 excursion, and 2000 e350 van
Plan is to convert van to 4wd now that kids are grown we can sell the excursion to fund it. I have all of those rigs over at Powerstrokenation.com

We have a 5 bed 3 bath modern house it just happens to be in protected watershed wilderness and completely off grid with our closest neighbor being 2 miles away…. Perfect!

Never ever thought I would leave Colorado
I’m a native, in fact my whole family is natives. Colorado has changed big time
I call it calirodo anymore
To north Idaho we went! 4 families and one neighbor all followed us up here
Great move, excellent timing
Red flag laws give me a break
It was a cowtown when I was a kid

 

[84FLH]

Early Excursions get big money on Bring A Trailer auction site. So do OBS Fords.

"Red Flag" = turn in everyone you don't like. No judge would deny any quasi-legal request to confiscate, even if the request was without merit on it's face!

Now, if a spouse threatened the other spouse and has a history of doing that, then I say yeah, take them from that spouse.

If my daughter was so threatened I'd take them myself if not more.

North Idaho state rep Heather Scott does a good job trying to create smaller, more accountable state govt.

I'm on east coast but get her newsletter because ID is on my list of places to scout for a log home/cabin.

She says N. Idaho is like a separate state from Boise.

I jacked front end up and tested tire for tie rod and ball joint(s) movement, like the vid showed and like you said.

Zero tie rod or ball joint movement. I didn't use pry bar to test bearings, but don't have any bearing noises anyway.

I did this with steering wheel locked and unlocked.

With steering wheel unlocked, the steering wheel moved left/right when I pushed/pulled tires left/right.

So there's nothing wrong there.

I guess the "tech" who was slamming my tire back and forth last Saturday was also moving the steering wheel but I never looked at the steering wheel to see if it was moving!

That's cause I'd worked 50 hours that week (machinist) and wasn't in "Car mechanic detective" mode.

I was in "sipping my coffee and my reading my book about western gunman" mode (Triggernometry, Gunslingers and Gunmen of the Old West)

Next time I'll wear my officer's size 1911 in a bull hide belt rig. ;-)