Flat towing a '98 AWD

[gijoecam]

It is NOT a legitimate solution Joe. I'm pretty vehement about this. It's a horrible suggestion. So you want to idle your vehicle for 8 hours while you drive down the road?? I can't imagine you agreeing to such a thing. I stand by my post...the worst suggestion I've seen.

It is, in fact, a perfectly viable solution. I never said it was the recommended solution.

And by the way...I've seen two motors completely seized from overheating from this. Geez...you don't have any way of monitoring the gauges!! What happens if the engine dies???

By the way, not all transfer cases will lube satisfactorily in that case.

And I've seen engines seize doing nothing more than driving them down the freeway, or idling in a parking lot... so what?? It's a moot point. Just to be argumentative, if a trailer is the 'best' solution, I would argue that I've seen plenty of accidents caused by a trailer tire blowing out, or uncontrollable trailer sway. Yes, if the engine dies, or happens to overheat, yes, you're SOL. However, even then, one could tow it at speeds up to 45mph for a maximum distance of XX miles (I forget... it's in the owner's manual...) without damage to the vehicle.

As for lubricating the t-case, it's a non-issue. Just because you're not familiar with it doesn't mean we're not. The fluid pump mounts to the output shaft. So long as it's not being towed backwards, it's getting fluid.

...And think about it... it's a sealed unit... how else would it get lubricated if it wasn't self-lubricated?

 

[oldbronco]

As it stands my options are: 1)trailer it, too long for most RV parks; 2)leave the 98 as our summer car, sell 500, and buy a newer X, looking into this; 3) keep using the dolly w/ the 500, doable ,but a PITA, and last 4) hack up my 98, not cost effective.

Thinking option 2 is the best bet, depending on what the 500 is worth.

Thanks for the suggestions,

 

[Cobraguy]

...And think about it... it's a sealed unit... how else would it get lubricated if it wasn't self-lubricated?

Then the same could be said for the transmission. See how far that one gets you unless you have an old cast iron power glide...

Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

 

[wyochimneysweep]

Then the same could be said for the transmission. See how far that one gets you unless you have an old cast iron power glide...

Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

lets see you go back to school and get schooled on how a transmission is lubed and how a transfer cases is lubed. and I suppose you think the older lawn motor engines at a oil pump to and that nasa never landed on the moon, too?

 

[Cobraguy]

Lawn mower engines??? For God's sake.

And it's very possible I've built more transmissions than anyone on this site. Hundreds. Doesn't mean I know it all, but I have a pretty good idea of what's going on. It's obvious you don't...so you stick to your area of expertise...lawn mowers...and I'll stick to mine. Deal?

And since you didn't understand the previous conversation with Joe...we were talking about flat towing a transfer case or transmission. Not whether or not it has a pump at all. The cast iron 'glide should have given you an idea....

 

[IZwack]

Then the same could be said for the transmission. See how far that one gets you unless you have an old cast iron power glide...

Dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Seriously, the same can not be said about the transmission.

See the transfer case's oiling system is a pump that sits on the main shaft, as long as that main shaft is rotating, the transfer case will lubricate itself. On the other hand, the transmission's pump does not rotate when the engine is off, the transmission in Nuetral and the vehicle being towed. Therefore, you will have to have the engine on/idling in order for the transmission pump to rotate.

The long shaft in the image below is the stock main shaft from a 1350 , even if the transfer case is in Neutral, the transfer case will still lubricate itself while in tow:

(the "front" of the shaft is at the bottom, and the "rear" of the shaft is at the top -- which is splined into the rear output yoke/flange of the transfer case).

 

[Cobraguy]

I know that IZ. I'm just being stubborn because the whole idea of idling your car while you tow it across country is so ludicrous. And I'm still not convinced all transfer cases would allow you to tow by being in neutral. I've been in a lot of 'em...and I just don't remember. Maybe.

And remember, the old cast iron 'glides had a rear pump. You could push start the car.

 

[IZwack]

To sum this up, lets just all disconnect/remove our driveshafts unless one has a manually shifted transfer case that has a true Neutral, or a manual transmission.

 

[Cobraguy]

I can buy that. Time to move on.

 

[gijoecam]

lets see you go back to school and get schooled on how a transmission is lubed and how a transfer cases is lubed. and I suppose you think the older lawn motor engines at a oil pump to and that nasa never landed on the moon, too?

Lawn mower engines??? For God's sake.

And it's very possible I've built more transmissions than anyone on this site. Hundreds. Doesn't mean I know it all, but I have a pretty good idea of what's going on. It's obvious you don't...so you stick to your area of expertise...lawn mowers...and I'll stick to mine. Deal?

And since you didn't understand the previous conversation with Joe...we were talking about flat towing a transfer case or transmission. Not whether or not it has a pump at all. The cast iron 'glide should have given you an idea....

I know it's understood, but the transmission is hardly a sealed unit. Nearly every Ford automatic transmission in the last 20+ years or so has used a fluid pump driven off the input shaft and a oil-to-water transmission cooler integrated into the radiator. However lubrication is provided by the pump, which is driven off the input to the trans. Provided the engine is idling, fluid is being pumped, and the bearings are staying sufficiently lubed to do exactly what he's asking to do. I find it terribly difficult to believe that any damage could as a direct result of doing just that. Although you claim to have seen two of them, I would have wonder if there were other mitigating factors (i.e. engine stalled, forgot to turn it on, etc). Although you claim to have seen two failures, how many others do you think have done it without harming anything? I suspect it's more than either of us would believe.

Aside from the length of time spent idling, how is it any different than shifting into neutral while cruising down the freeway? Doing so isn't going to cause an imminent failure of of the trans, is it??

I know that IZ. I'm just being stubborn because the whole idea of idling your car while you tow it across country is so ludicrous. And I'm still not convinced all transfer cases would allow you to tow by being in neutral. I've been in a lot of 'em...and I just don't remember. Maybe.

And remember, the old cast iron 'glides had a rear pump. You could push start the car.

We're not talking about all transfer cases, we're talking about the 44-06 in the original poster's Explorer.

To sum this up, lets just all disconnect/remove our driveshafts unless one has a manually shifted transfer case that has a true Neutral, or a manual transmission.

There is a third option for electronically shifted units... some model years were capable of having a neutral-tow kit installed. Availability varied a bit by year and model (2-door, 4-door, and SportTrac), but in the second-gens, it was only for the 44-05 behind the V-6s. (Obviously, nothing's available for the AWD case)

Cobraguy, we understand your opinion on the matter, but yours is not the only opinion that matters. Please keep in mind that there are many ways around any problem, some of which are perfectly viable, though not necessarily preferred.

 

[CDW6212R]

I know that IZ. I'm just being stubborn because the whole idea of idling your car while you tow it across country is so ludicrous. And I'm still not convinced all transfer cases would allow you to tow by being in neutral. I've been in a lot of 'em...and I just don't remember. Maybe.

And remember, the old cast iron 'glides had a rear pump. You could push start the car.

I agree with you, I would never leave a vehicle running unattended for any great length of time. Never mind the waste of gasoline.

I could easily pay someone to remove the driveshaft, and someone else to install it later, for far less than the cost of wasted gas.

The rear driveshaft can be removed or installed in less than ten minutes.

 

[gijoecam]

I agree with you, I would never leave a vehicle running unattended for any great length of time. Never mind the waste of gasoline.

I could easily pay someone to remove the driveshaft, and someone else to install it later, for far less than the cost of wasted gas.

The rear driveshaft can be removed or installed in less than ten minutes.

But the problem would be three-fold: First, it would require that a mechanic come out to the campground in which you were staying with the RV. House calls for mechanics are rare (and not cheap!!).

Problem 2: Until such time as a mechanic arrived for the job, it would not be a good idea to disconnect the Ex from the motorhome as it would be completely immobile (except by gravity, of course). So, you'd be stuck waiting around for hours, if not days, after arriving at the campground for a mechanic to come reinstall your driveshafts. So much for setting up camp, then running into town for supplies...

Problem 3: Wear and tear. Repeated removals and installs of the driveshaft are not going to bode well for the flanges, yokes, and bolts that hold the driveshafts in. They're not designed to be installed and removed on a regular basis.

The biggest issue would be that it would be a major inconvenience for someone living the 'RV lifestyle.' For a one-time move, I would agree that driveshaft removal would be a pretty viable option. But for someone taking several weeks or months off to travel the country, removing and reinstalling the driveshafts regularly would be nothing less than a pain in the butt if done yourself, and a major headache if it was necessary to rely on mechanics to do the job.

Again, it's an option... probably not the best choice, but a choice none the less.

 

[CDW6212R]

...
Problem 3: Wear and tear. Repeated removals and installs of the driveshaft are not going to bode well for the flanges, yokes, and bolts that hold the driveshafts in. They're not designed to be installed and removed on a regular basis..../QUOTE]



If someone did R&R the shaft for towing, they would learn how to do it themselves after once or twice.

The only bolts that hold it in are the best bolts Ford makes, heavy duty grade 8 bolts which never wear out. It's just four bolts, not fun for a novice, but easy for experienced people.

 

[gijoecam]

If someone did R&R the shaft for towing, they would learn how to do it themselves after once or twice.

The only bolts that hold it in are the best bolts Ford makes, heavy duty grade 8 bolts which never wear out. It's just four bolts, not fun for a novice, but easy for experienced people.

True. However the threads in the flange on the rear axle pinion flange, the CV flange on the front and rear outputs of the t-case, and the front axle pinion flange. Furthermore, although those bolts are all hardened, ford specs those as one-time use items (including the front u-joint straps) to be discarded upon removal and replaced with new. While I realize most people don't do that every time, I would not want to be in the habit of re-using one-time-use parts.

Besides, when you're on vacation, who wants to spend ANY time wrenching on a vehicle?? Not me!!

 

[CDW6212R]

I know that this is all trivial or overboard for most readers. Ford wants all parts to be thrown away when serviced, they just lean to being overly cautious for vital items. I've worked on Fords long enough to know which are not going to fail ever with reuse, and those grade 8 bolts are among them. Ford does that a lot, and often the bolts are the red loctite variety, like front spindle/brake bracket bolts. People often do not get those tight enough, and a new bolt with red loctite would keep those from loosening. Regards,

 

[wyochimneysweep]

ford makes bolts? lol

 

[gijoecam]

I know that this is all trivial or overboard for most readers. Ford wants all parts to be thrown away when serviced, they just lean to being overly cautious for vital items. I've worked on Fords long enough to know which are not going to fail ever with reuse, and those grade 8 bolts are among them. Ford does that a lot, and often the bolts are the red loctite variety, like front spindle/brake bracket bolts. People often do not get those tight enough, and a new bolt with red loctite would keep those from loosening. Regards,

I guess I missed my point... running the bolts in and out regularly will wear the non-hardened threads on the drive flanges. Threads don't like to be used constantly.

As a once-in-a-while solution or a one-trip cross-country, I'd probably pull the shafts too. But for regular pulling behind the motorhome, it's not a practical solution IMHO.