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Ford 9 Inch Troubles

FullBlownModz

Active Member
Joined
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City, State
Atlanta, GA
Year, Model & Trim Level
91 and 97 solid axle exes
Hey forum! So I'm preparing to put a 9 inch in the place of my 8.8, and when I was tearing down the 9 inch I saw this.
29x82gn.jpg

Cracked pinion straddle?
Well anyways I need a new case and found a few third members on craigslist. What all do I need to look for in the third member? Different carrier bearing sizes? I have the cracked 31 spline third member and a new locker and new ring and pinion to go in a new case.
 



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The strongest Ford-built cases are Nodular Iron, usually identifiable with the "N' shown. The best differentials were used in taxi-cabs and police cars; they had 4-pinion differentials instead of two. 4-pinion jobs were often found with Traction-Lok in them.

A real good locker if you're changing diffs too is the Torsen unit. Has no clutches, only worm and pinion gears, completely mechanical, quiet, strong.

I would stay away from the ratchet-type Detroit Lockers. imp


nc1.jpg
 






The strongest Ford-built cases are Nodular Iron, usually identifiable with the "N' shown. The best differentials were used in taxi-cabs and police cars; they had 4-pinion differentials instead of two. 4-pinion jobs were often found with Traction-Lok in them.

A real good locker if you're changing diffs too is the Torsen unit. Has no clutches, only worm and pinion gears, completely mechanical, quiet, strong.

I would stay away from the ratchet-type Detroit Lockers. imp

I've been looking around for nodular cases but there arent any in my local junkyards or any online that fit my budget. The third member I have now has the trac-lok but I found an aussie locker for half price so I will be running that. I have heard that the trac-loks usually have worn out clutches so I jumped the gun on the aussie. Hopefully that will only be temporary until I can look into a detroit or a torsen.

If my third member has the 2.89 or 3.06 carrier bearings (havent found out yet) could I simply put the correct bearings needed for the new case onto my existing carrier and call it a day if the cases have different carrier bearing sizes?
 






I've been looking around for nodular cases but there arent any in my local junkyards or any online that fit my budget. The third member I have now has the trac-lok but I found an aussie locker for half price so I will be running that. I have heard that the trac-loks usually have worn out clutches so I jumped the gun on the aussie. Hopefully that will only be temporary until I can look into a detroit or a torsen.

If my third member has the 2.89 or 3.06 carrier bearings (havent found out yet) could I simply put the correct bearings needed for the new case onto my existing carrier and call it a day if the cases have different carrier bearing sizes?


No, because the bearing pockets for the outer race of the carrier bearings are a larger diameter. The smaller bearing size is the far commoner one found. One vehicle which often seemed to have the bigger, better nines was the Torino, around 1970.


If you are experienced in setting up gears, I need not go into important specifics, but in case you are not, and plan to do this work yourself: Most important aspect is pinion bearing preload, followed by diff. bearing preload. After that, tooth contact pattern along with correct backlash. The nine inch is actually one of the easiest to set up, due to the removable pinion carrier. 8.8 for example, pinion has shims to establish both bearing preload as well as gear location.To change them if "playing by ear", without depth gauges, the diff. carrier with ring gear must be removed to extract the pinion. On nine, it comes out the front. Most others involved pressing pinion bearings on and off the gear to access shims; nine has them between the case front and bolt-in pinion retainer. Those 5 bolts are Grade 8, and deserve to be torqued appropriately; insufficient bolt load allows shifting of gear tooth location, which must be held to a minimum.


Pinion bearing preload is done two ways: "crush" sleeve, and solid spacer. The solid way is better, more sensitive to error in set-up, though. All Ford "High Performance" vehicles came with solid spacers. My buddy back in the days of the first (1963-1/2 Ford 427), actually cracked his carrier in two, split vertically top to bottom!


Mistakes can be made. Been there. When installing carrier in case, do not leave carrier bearing cap bolts slightly untightened to allow easy rotation of adjustment rings (which are threaded). Doing so allows shift of gear location when torquing them. That mistake cost me a new set of gears, scored unimaginably.


Finally, let's say you have set up to your satisfaction, good pinion and diff. carrier bearing preload, good backlash (shoot for high side, 0.015" OK), tooth contact pattern centered, especially on drive side. Wipe all tooth surfaces clean and dry, fasten the carrier in a strong vise, grip it by the bottom lip with soft jaws, grasp ring gear (use rag, sharp edges!) and rotate the assembly back and forth. Do that all the way around the ring gear. The "feel" should be smooth, not raspy, should make little or no sound. If the is a scraping feel, it is almost a guarantee the gears will run noisy. Getting it "smooth" might simply involve changing backlash a bit, usually a bit more, but sometimes the other way. OK if contact pattern on drive side moves slightly outward from center of tooth.


Avoid: nine inch cases very early, 1957, '58 with very large pinion seal, about 4" diameter. Any questions, feel free to ask! imp
 






No, because the bearing pockets for the outer race of the carrier bearings are a larger diameter. The smaller bearing size is the far commoner one found. One vehicle which often seemed to have the bigger, better nines was the Torino, around 1970.


If you are experienced in setting up gears, I need not go into important specifics, but in case you are not, and plan to do this work yourself: Most important aspect is pinion bearing preload, followed by diff. bearing preload. After that, tooth contact pattern along with correct backlash. The nine inch is actually one of the easiest to set up, due to the removable pinion carrier. 8.8 for example, pinion has shims to establish both bearing preload as well as gear location.To change them if "playing by ear", without depth gauges, the diff. carrier with ring gear must be removed to extract the pinion. On nine, it comes out the front. Most others involved pressing pinion bearings on and off the gear to access shims; nine has them between the case front and bolt-in pinion retainer. Those 5 bolts are Grade 8, and deserve to be torqued appropriately; insufficient bolt load allows shifting of gear tooth location, which must be held to a minimum.


Pinion bearing preload is done two ways: "crush" sleeve, and solid spacer. The solid way is better, more sensitive to error in set-up, though. All Ford "High Performance" vehicles came with solid spacers. My buddy back in the days of the first (1963-1/2 Ford 427), actually cracked his carrier in two, split vertically top to bottom!


Mistakes can be made. Been there. When installing carrier in case, do not leave carrier bearing cap bolts slightly untightened to allow easy rotation of adjustment rings (which are threaded). Doing so allows shift of gear location when torquing them. That mistake cost me a new set of gears, scored unimaginably.


Finally, let's say you have set up to your satisfaction, good pinion and diff. carrier bearing preload, good backlash (shoot for high side, 0.015" OK), tooth contact pattern centered, especially on drive side. Wipe all tooth surfaces clean and dry, fasten the carrier in a strong vise, grip it by the bottom lip with soft jaws, grasp ring gear (use rag, sharp edges!) and rotate the assembly back and forth. Do that all the way around the ring gear. The "feel" should be smooth, not raspy, should make little or no sound. If the is a scraping feel, it is almost a guarantee the gears will run noisy. Getting it "smooth" might simply involve changing backlash a bit, usually a bit more, but sometimes the other way. OK if contact pattern on drive side moves slightly outward from center of tooth.


Avoid: nine inch cases very early, 1957, '58 with very large pinion seal, about 4" diameter. Any questions, feel free to ask! imp

Wow thank you very much for the detailed information! It will come in handy as I am attempting to regear myself. I purchased another third member from craigslist and it was 28 spline instead of the 31 spline I needed. I thought I could just put in my locker and my problems would be solved, but I was wrong. The 28 spline carrier was too small for my 31 spline axle shafts to fit. I know I can get them machined to fit the axles, but I just took some measurements.

Both the new and the cracked third members have the 2.89 carrier bearings! I am planning to put the 31 spline carrier from the cracked case into the new the newly acquired case in place of the 28 spline carrier if that is possible. Also, will I have to use the carrier bearing caps that came with the cases or are they interchangeable?
 






Wow thank you very much for the detailed information! It will come in handy as I am attempting to regear myself. I purchased another third member from craigslist and it was 28 spline instead of the 31 spline I needed. I thought I could just put in my locker and my problems would be solved, but I was wrong. The 28 spline carrier was too small for my 31 spline axle shafts to fit. I know I can get them machined to fit the axles, but I just took some measurements.

Both the new and the cracked third members have the 2.89 carrier bearings! I am planning to put the 31 spline carrier from the cracked case into the new the newly acquired case in place of the 28 spline carrier if that is possible. Also, will I have to use the carrier bearing caps that came with the cases or are they interchangeable?

The two different sizes of carrier bearing caps must match their mating surfaces on the carrier (center section) casting. So, no. Depending on your intended usage, 28 spline axles are pretty strong, about all you get with 31s are bigger wheel bearings (outer). And a bit fatter axle at the diff end.
 






The two different sizes of carrier bearing caps must match their mating surfaces on the carrier (center section) casting. So, no. Depending on your intended usage, 28 spline axles are pretty strong, about all you get with 31s are bigger wheel bearings (outer). And a bit fatter axle at the diff end.

I was thinking they wouldn't be interchangeable, but I thought there might be a chance since both carriers had the same bearing size. Also, you mentioned that a solid adjustable crush sleeve would be more beneficial than a regular crush sleeve? I'm about to order the master overhaul kit and the adjustable one is $15 extra.
 






I was thinking they wouldn't be interchangeable, but I thought there might be a chance since both carriers had the same bearing size. Also, you mentioned that a solid adjustable crush sleeve would be more beneficial than a regular crush sleeve? I'm about to order the master overhaul kit and the adjustable one is $15 extra.

The solid preload insert is much trickier to install correctly than the "crush washer". After determining correct shim thickness to locate the pinion gear correctly, an appropriately-thick solid disc which allows the u-joint yoke nut to be adequately torqued without over-loading the bearings. This is a critical thing, being in the range of only a few thousandths of an inch.

Go with the crush sleeve, but if for any reason you must relieve torque on the nut after assembling, DO NOT reuse the sleeve. Doing so can result in insufficient tightness of the nut when proper preload is reached. Loose nuts can F.U. gears real easy! imp
 






The solid preload insert is much trickier to install correctly than the "crush washer". After determining correct shim thickness to locate the pinion gear correctly, an appropriately-thick solid disc which allows the u-joint yoke nut to be adequately torqued without over-loading the bearings. This is a critical thing, being in the range of only a few thousandths of an inch.

Go with the crush sleeve, but if for any reason you must relieve torque on the nut after assembling, DO NOT reuse the sleeve. Doing so can result in insufficient tightness of the nut when proper preload is reached. Loose nuts can F.U. gears real easy! imp

Awesome! I just ordered a master install kit and am purchasing all of the tools I might need. Would you recommend a dial indicator with a magnetic base or a vise grip base?
 






Awesome! I just ordered a master install kit and am purchasing all of the tools I might need. Would you recommend a dial indicator with a magnetic base or a vise grip base?

Now, that is a GOOD question! I really shouldn't make recommendations, not an expert, but guess the vise grip might not always have a good place to grip.

If you are getting a pinion depth gauge, you will be in good shape to eliminate a lot of the "set up by ear" and guesswork methods. I never had one, so starting out with a new gearset, I had to do "trial and error" on the pinion retainer shim thickness. Most important in the final analysis is the tooth contact pattern, adequate pinion bearing (and diff brng.) preload, correct backlash between gears, check lash in at least 4 (90-degrees apart) locations on ring gear. If it varies much (like 0.002" or more), check for ring gear face runout. A nick or burr on diff housing, missed by eye, can cause that.

Lastly, the "smoothness" of feel rotating it all by grasping the RING gear, not by turning pinion. I love 9-inch Fords! Put them in many cars, '55 Merc. my first, then Falcons, Mustangs, etc. imp
 






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