Front drive end growling noise

[jkkrau]

I have a 2000 Mountaneer 5.0l and AWD with 160 K. Two years ago the front drive shaft went out, made a hell of a racket. Problem is I was 500 miles from home in the Apostle Islands on vacation. Ex Ford Mechanic removed it, through it in the back and said get it fixed when you get home, its a tough transmission you'll have nothing to worry about. I have replaced the whell bearing on the passenger side twice, and just recently replaced drive shaft again, due to a torn rubber boot which allowed all the grease to fly out. After installing the shaft and driving two weeks a growling noise has stared under the front end. I replaced the passenger bearing hub for the third time, still noise. It starts at approx 15 mph, at 20 gets louder and faster, by 60 its hummin pretty loud.If I make a sharp right hand turn it momentarily quites down, but then comes back to its previous level within a second or two. The front differential has signs of oil leaks at both output shafts and the input from the front driveshaft. I have added oil twice but not more than a half aquart. Both cv's are two years old from the last trouble shooting escapade. What should I do to troble shoot problem. How do I determin Transfer case, front differential etc.

 

[jkkrau]

It pays to double check

Put front end up on jack stands, was waiting for Dad to bring a second set so I could run the car and try to pinpoint noises from underneath. For some reason a grabed the passenger tire and check for woble- none. Then check drivers side again and it appeared lose. Removed bearing hub and installed the one from the passenger side from the night before. Presto!! noise gone. Does anyone have any experiance with the front differential leaking oil? Is it a PITA to fix?

 

[my pos mounty]

To replace the CV/axle differential oil seals is indeed a PITA. From what I have read here, the drivers side can be done while the differential is still installed in the truck, but when you need to do the passenger side...I think you have to take the differential out. It really isn't all that hard to take out, just take the front driveshaft off, remove your CV/ales, and theres one bracket with 3 bolts. The PITA part being taking the CV/axles out.

 

[jkkrau]

front end noise again.

I have had problems in the past with front end noise, turned out to be the front drive shaft. The last couple of oil changes I noticed oil coming from the front differential in all three seal areas. I also have a new noise. I have removed the front drive shaft, noise is still there. Comes and goes at 55 to 65 mph. Sometimes comes and goes depending on if the road tilts to the left or right (construction areas). I removed front CV's one has a distorted rubber boot. looks like it got hot and lost its accordian shape. I have differential out now and I figure I'll change the cv's since they are out. I have read the other threads about changing the pinion seal, my question is how do you get the old seals for the cv's out?( left and right side?) do they have to be pried out with a screwdriver? I have been tapping on one but did not want to go to far before I do any damage. Are they pretty much destroyed when you remove them? How do you know if you need to change bearings?

 

[jkkrau]

How to remove pinion nut on front differential

Dropped front differential, removed both CV seals. Tried to remove pinion nut, I used a two foot breaker bar, stood on it (250 lbs) nothing. I even tried heat, no luck, is there a special trick to this?

 

[turboexplorer]

Best way by far is to save yourself lots of time and take it to a shop and pay them to hit the Pinion nut with a nice impact gun. I did mine 2,000 miles ago. Took shaft out then paid a local shop to hit it with a good gun slap new seal in and put nut back in exact same position so your Pinion preload is still right. I tried for all I was worth and even with an extra hand and nothing. So take it and a seal in only takes ten min to do. Shop just wanted $15 bucks and a pepsi!

 

[jkkrau]

Got the nut off

I took the diff to work and put it on the shop table. A mechanic gave me a hand, we had a 4 foot cheater pipe on a ratchet and a 3 foot pipe wrench to bbot. Did you change the other two seals as well, and did you see a need to change the bearings? I did count the revelutions to come off it was 14, I did mark the shaft and the nut.

 

[turboexplorer]

I did change the other two seals. There is no reason not to if the diff is out of the truck. Cheap seals, way easier now than having to take the CV's out again. Good that you marked the pinion and the nut. That way you don't have to do a new crush sleeve. I did it all when I rebuilt the whole front diff trying to find a little grumble that bugged me. Bearings where all in perfect shape. So unless you can see pits on the two side bearings and the pinion is smooth and doesn't howl you don't need to do bearings. That gets into setting up gear-sets which if you haven't done before can be challenging. I ended up finding the grumble but its nothing that can be changed and i have driven half a dozen or so and they all feel the exact same way so its just how the diff is. If wanted i can post the thread where I drew some pics that describe what the grumble truly is on most rigs. Make sure the pinion seal doesn't fold over when you put the yoke back on.

 

[jkkrau]

The drive coupler once removed was found to have a few grooves in it. I believe replacing is what is required. Do you know where I can get one. I have looked at rock auto and a local parts store but no luck. Is this a dealer only part?

 

[OneLever]

I ended up finding the grumble but its nothing that can be changed...If wanted i can post the thread where I drew some pics that describe what the grumble truly is on most rigs.

I have just read through several threads of you troubleshooting this issue. I would be interested on your final diagnosis for it.

 

[jkkrau]

Almost done collecting parts

I am 99% sure the original problem was the cv axle, on the passenger side. I started comparing the passenger to drive side by simply holding them in my hand and articulating the joints round and round. The rubber boot on the diff side looks distorted by heat. When trying to go around in a circular motion it clunks, I have not removed the boot but I bet it's fubar. The seals have been a little bit of a challeng along with the yoke. I found the pinion seal at auto zone for $10.00 the passenger side seal at car quest for $20. The second seal the young man brought out was not correct and he believed someone put them away wrong as it was in an old torn up box. The car quest part numbers were 710428, and 710429. I will go to another Store tomorrow thats says they nhave the correct seal. As for the Yoke, the one I removed has a few grooves in it and I am trying to find a new one. I know its from a Dana 35 diff with a spicer name on it. I do not know how they sime them or who I can get a new one from. One of the auto part guys told me to call a drivesahft shop in town. I will see how that pans out and let you know.I have decided to only replace the seals as I cleaned up the internals and all the bearings look fine. I do not want any more work than I need.

 

[jkkrau]

small set back in pinion yoke installation

I purchased the yoke at the Ford dealer. It was $64.00, the two CV seals were $17.00 a piece, cheaper than anywhere else. I installed all the seals after a good cleaning. I installed the slinger and yoke, then put on the nut. I even put on a little thread locker for good luck. I counted the revolutions as I went round and round. Trouble is I never got to 14. I am at 13 and 4 flats. ( or a tad over 13 an 3/4 revoltions. I have used a 18" breaker bar with a 1" box wrench for in centive. I figure about 400 foot pounds. I am wondering if the new yoke is slightly taller than the old one. I did not read any post where someone changed there yoke and had a hard time getting back to their original mark. I will take it back apart and try it again. I even checked the torque needed to turn it which is less than 15 inch pounds. Anyone have a clue? Should I just get a bigger lever and crank er down? I do not want to break anything.

 

[turboexplorer]

Would be surprised if it is any diffeence in height. It is usually not determined by TQ but by Pinion pre-load. You don't want to crush the crush sleeve though. However you wont break anything with hand tools that's a guarantee. Mine when I did it took a real nice impact gun to get it back to the mark but wasn't bad to do. But at the same time I couldn't even break mine loose without the air gun so we put it back on with that as well.

 

[imp]

I purchased the yoke at the Ford dealer. It was $64.00, the two CV seals were $17.00 a piece, cheaper than anywhere else. I installed all the seals after a good cleaning. I installed the slinger and yoke, then put on the nut. I even put on a little thread locker for good luck. I counted the revolutions as I went round and round. Trouble is I never got to 14. I am at 13 and 4 flats. ( or a tad over 13 an 3/4 revoltions. I have used a 18" breaker bar with a 1" box wrench for in centive. I figure about 400 foot pounds. I am wondering if the new yoke is slightly taller than the old one. I did not read any post where someone changed there yoke and had a hard time getting back to their original mark. I will take it back apart and try it again. I even checked the torque needed to turn it which is less than 15 inch pounds. Anyone have a clue? Should I just get a bigger lever and crank er down? I do not want to break anything.

Manufacturing tolerances on yokes certainly allow large enough variance on the location of the bottom of the "pocket" which the nut tightens down into. Especially since yokes are manufactured by many different sources. The important dimensions are held more closely, of course.

The best way to ensure proper pinion bearing preload upon reassembly, is to measure the preload by rotating by hand with a torque wrench BEFORE disassmebly, then tighten nut until similar preload is obtained. Or, look up correct torque spec. in Ford Shop Manual. Establishing preload by location of nut tighten-down is at best a "crap shoot". imp

 

[jkkrau]

Finally complete

Well, I wound up removing the yoke to double check it against the new one. The new yoke was actually .015" to .020" longer than the old yoke. I used a digital micrometer and the nut to check both for height. Checked them both in three places and came up with an average of .017" Internal pilot bores were the same. The nut has 20 threads per inch or .050" per revolution. 1/4 revolution = aprrox .o16". I also double checked it with approx 480 to 500 foot pounds of torgue. Installed dif new CV's, and even found a bad wheel bearing while I was putting the tires on. Truck runs fine. No noise, No leaks Thanks for all the help to those who wrote back. I would have been lost without you not to mention light in the wallet. How do you become an elite member?

 

[my pos mounty]

How do you become an elite member?

Thats easy! <CLICK HERE>

 

[turboexplorer]

Glad you got it all worked out! Become an elite member least we can do to contribute to this great forum. Saved me tons of money and has given me tons of great ideas!