Heavy judder during low speed turns

[StealthyBlagga]

My 1998 4.0 4WD Explorer just started juddering pretty heavily during low-speed turns (such as parking maneuvers, cornering at low/medium speed). Its a heavy, low frequency judder, almost as though the front wheels are locked together and "scrubbing/skipping" during the turn due to their different speed over the tarmac. This phenomenon happens equally with the transmission in D and R. The 4WD mode is "Auto", but its dry on the road so I assume the vehicle is running in 2WD (?). The engine appears to be running smoothly, and the tranny fluid and power steering fluids appear to be at the correct level. No obvious signs of fluid leakage on the floor of my garage, but I've not had the chance to get underneath and have a look yet. Any suggestions ?

 

[IZwack]

Read this:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211845

Some good info here too:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203441

 

[gijoecam]

Could be the rear diff clutch pack if it's a limited slip. If not, and you suspect the transfer case, remove the front driveshaft and see if the problem persists.

Let us know what you find.

-Joe

 

[StealthyBlagga]

UPDATE: I did not have much time to look at this today, but here is what I did.

1) Jacked up the front end. Confirmed that the front wheels do turn freely by hand, and in opposite directions... good news for the front differential, right ?
2) The front drive shaft will NOT turn by hand. This with the engine off.
3) No obvious signs of disaster (leaking fluid etc.) at the front end. Did not check the differential fluid levels though.

One detail I forgot to mention in my earlier post: the "Check Engine" light is on. I discounted this, as my main problem seemed to be a transmission or steering issue (the vehicle only judders during turns), and because the light has been coming on intermittently for 2 years due to a slow oxygen sensor (troubleshooting code P0133). In the past, the light would go out after a few cycles, but this time the light has stayed on longer than I would expect. I took the vehicle to AutoZone to have the code checked - they got a new code: P1131 ("Bank 1 running lean"). Could a faulty oxygen sensor be causing my problems, or is this just a coincidence ?

Any other ideas ?

 

[IZwack]

When you did #2) turn the driveshaft by hand -- were the front tires up in the air? Because if they were not, then no you will not be able to turn the driveshaft by hand (cuaz you'll be trying to move the vehicle at that point).

 

[StealthyBlagga]

When you did #2) turn the driveshaft by hand -- were the front tires up in the air? Because if they were not, then no you will not be able to turn the driveshaft by hand (cuaz you'll be trying to move the vehicle at that point).

Yes, the front wheels were up in the air. They moved freely during step (1) and I immediately reached underneath and tried turning the drive shaft (which did not turn).

 

[IZwack]

Did it turn even just a little bit? Maybe even a degree or two? Because there should be some play.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Did it turn even just a little bit? Maybe even a degree or two? Because there should be some play.

Yes, there was a few degrees of slight play, but no meaningful rotation, and certainly nothing transmitted to the front wheels (which I was hoping would turn).

 

[IZwack]

Hmm the transfer case might be fine. The next test is to remove the front driveshaft as gijoecam suggested.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Any thoughts on the troubleshooting codes ?

 

[IZwack]

Its probably not related -- the 4wd system is independent of engine controls.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I disconnected the battery and the troubleshooting code went away. The vehicle still judders during slow turns, so it does not seem like the two are related. I also tried disconnecting the cable to the transfer case, but the judder remains. Its beginning to look like something mechanical.

 

[IZwack]

Time to remove the front driveshaft eh

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Yup - its the TC

Well, the transfer case is indeed seized. I am going to run the vehicle for a while with the front drive shaft removed, but its probably God's way of telling me to buy a new truck. This vehicle has 106K miles on it, so is not worth working too hard to fix.

Thanks for the guidance guys.

 

[IZwack]

106K miles? That's about the time frame for the typical vehicular "midlife crisis" -- which often involves drivetrain aches (transmission, transfer case). To me, 106 isn't really the time to swap out for a new truck. But if you've got the green for a new vehicle, then by all means

 

[StealthyBlagga]

106K miles? That's about the time frame for the typical vehicular "midlife crisis" -- which often involves drivetrain aches (transmission, transfer case). To me, 106 isn't really the time to swap out for a new truck. But if you've got the green for a new vehicle, then by all means

I have to say I agree with you, but the fact is I need a vehicle that is 100% reliable... can't afford to miss flights etc. just because my Exploder decides to take a dump at a bad moment. Other than the transfer case, this vehicle is in excellent condition, and I'd be tempted to fix it myself and keep it as a beater if I had anywhere to keep it.

What do you guys think about the 2008 Explorer ?

PS: How long could I run the vehicle with the front drive shaft removed ? Is there any downside to doing so indefinitely ?

 

[IZwack]

As long as you dont have the v8 engine, then you are fine driving w/o the front driveshaft -- and the reason why you can do this is because you dont need the front driveshaft to move the vehicle as long as you have the rear driveshaft. And the reason why the v8 2nd generatoin Explorers cant be ran w/o their front driveshaft for an extended amount of time is because of their All-Wheel drive transfer case (as opposed to a selectable 4-Wheel drive transfer case, which you have) which requires the front driveshaft in order to properly Park itself (w/o the front driveshaft, it creeps forward as the viscous clutch slips over time while the vehicle is parked on an incline).

If you're worried about dependability -- then perhaps you should look for a small vehicle from a dependable company with a manual transmission and if it has 4wd, then with a manual transfer case. I say small because a smaller vehicle will probably be easier to maintain in the long run because its drivetrain parts are not stressed as much due to the smaller weight.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I live in Arizona dude - we don't do small vehicles .