help needed!

[swampyrbs]

thanks for looking,im attempting to replace tensioners and have come across a problem,ive managed to undo all pipes and screws but the egr pipe is connected to a bracket which is bolted under neath a pump at the top of the engine.ive tryed to remove the pipe which goes into the manifold but without forcing or breaking something it wont budge.does this pipe come out of the manifold or have i got to remove the pump to undo one bolt ,i suppose i could cut the bracket with a hacksaw if worst come to worst as i dont want to be taking pump apart to do a job which was supposed to be quite simpl lol?any help appreciated thanks richard

 

[kernowman]

Richard, when I did mine I managed to get the upper manifold off with the egr pipe and bracket in place - takes a bit of fiddling, but it does come out when you lift the manifold.
Richard

 

[swampyrbs]

Richard, when I did mine I managed to get the upper manifold off with the egr pipe and bracket in place - takes a bit of fiddling, but it does come out when you lift the manifold.
Richard

thanks for reply,so just to clarify the silver pipe at the end of egr which goes into the plastic manifold can come out if gentle leverage is applied and wont break ! as im stuck upto this point ,i can see putting the torx screws back in is going to be a nightmare do you have any tips please,thanks again richard

 

[kernowman]

I had to use quite a bit of bit of force on the pipe to get the last inch or so to clear the manifold - made me cringe a bit when I did it, but have done it three times with no problems. Should have no problems when you put the Torx screws back if the manifold is in the right place. Just be careful to make sure the new gaskets don't get fouled up when you put the manifold on - I use a torch to look in the gap before I finally seat the manifold. One of those fiddly jobs where it would help if you were seven feet tall Good luck - come back if you have any more problems.
Richard

 

[swampyrbs]

managed to get it off in the end only to find my socket has gone missing ,my brothers getting one from work tomorrow and then hopefully get on with the job i can see my knuckes getting cut undoing the bolts as room is tight at the back.i didnt get any instructions on the kit for the restrictor i take it i undo the torx screw insert and then replace torx screw ? ive still got to undo 2 sensors that go into top of waterpump to be able to get any socket on the front bolt .its certainly a learning curve and hope i dont have to do it again anytime soon lol,thanks for your help

 

[Howard]

Here are the fitting instructions. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=487634&postcount=33 . Yes you undo the torx oil way cover and slip the restrictor in and then use the new cover. I found that I only had to remove the nearest sensor to get to the tensioner and you should not loose any water or get any air in.

When you replace the upper manifold use a little oil on the rubber ring around the egr pipe. It makes it so much easier to get back on fully.

 

[swampyrbs]

thanks for link going to have a look now ,regards richard

 

[kernowman]

My Torx oilway plug where the restrictor goes in was very tight indeed - it is slightly tapered. Make sure it is nice and clean in the top so your Torx bit fits in nice and tight. I used a long extension so I could get in at the correct angle. The tensioner can also be a bit tight, but with a good socket nice and squarely on it you should have no problems. I used an ordinary spanner to tighten the new tensioner as I did not have a deep enough socket to clear the cylindrical bit on the top - managed to tighten it OK.

 

[swampyrbs]

thanks for the help everyone,so far ive managed with an oversized socket and some silver foil managed to get the front tensioner out and compared the old and new and there isnt much if any difference in the amount of spring so im assuming the rear is the one with the problem? (if it is the tensioners) so im in two minds as to fit the new one as if it aint broke why fix it anyway ill post any new developments later when i get hold of the correct size socket as its a bit fiddly with the one ive got at the moment,richard

 

[kernowman]

Richard, it was my rear one that cured the rattle when I changed it - I nearly didn't fit it as I could not tell the difference between the old and new with regard to the spring pressure. However, pleased I did as I have had no more probs. Would suggest you fit your new one on the front if you have more than 70k on the clock. The new front one also has the added cylindrical bit on the top which I assume acts as an additional oil reservoir. You will definitely need a good socket for the rear one - see page two of my previous post 'Same old story - start up rattle'.
Richard

 

[swampyrbs]

i had read on a post somewhere that there was a noticeable difference in spring pressure between worn and new,also i couldnt get hold of the torx screw properly and it almost buggered the head so as the old tensioner was ok (seemed!) and didnt want to bugger the torx screw up anymore ,a few days ago with the rattle comming from the rear(i listened with oil filler cap off when running nothing from the front) i decided to just replace the gasket and reassemble with the old tensioner and save it for another day as i need the car later.sods law! now where it hasnt been started for 1 day i have a flat battery and awaiting arrival from my brother from work with jump leads (and right size socket for the rear)which shouldnt take too long i hope all being well i should have good news later on today ,fingers crossed,cheers richard

 

[DuncanOfEngland]

I think that the return spring within the hydraulic tensioner has little effect on its action.

The main function of the tensioner is to damp the motion of the camshaft chain when it changes tension from sloppy to extremely taut during its cycle, thus reducing the 'whip' it would otherwise generate. The most likely causes of tensioner failing are 1) the internal metered non-return metered valve fails, 2) the oil feed to the chamber becomes blocked or restricted, or 3) the piston fouls the cylinder. In the case of 1), hydro-lock can occur, causing the tensioner to act like a steel rod, 2) damping action is reduced or 3) the piston action is not smooth.

Ford changed the design of both tensioners and added a restictor valve as part of the LH 'kit'. If it hasn't already been done, changing both tensioners, adding a restrictor valve along with fresh oil and filter is about all you can do before stripping the engine to replace the internal parts if the rattle persists.

There does seem to have been a serious design flaw in the original LH guide, which Ford addressed by a significant re-design in 2001, although I can't see any noticable difference in the RH guide. Also the jackshaft chain guide has been beefed up.

The most important thing, is not to allow the engine to start without oil pressure, so crank it with the coil pack disconnected until the oil pressure gauge shows a reading. Undamped camshaft chains can do a lot of damage...

Duncan

 

[swampyrbs]

thanks for all advice and know how everyone,i managed to change the rear and started it seemed ok then i left it and started again and the noise was there again but this time it was towards the front where its never come from before,so stripped down and replaced the front as tight as i could but not enough and have to get a deep socket tomorrow to finish the job so hopefully the end is near?

 

[kernowman]

If you have your oil change done at a garage, ask to have the new filter filled first before it is fitted. Most garages don't bother to do this - surprising how long it takes for the filter to fill when first starting after the oil change - during this period there is no oil pressure and you will usually get plenty of rattles. As Duncan says, it is very important not to start without oil pressure.
Richard

 

[swampyrbs]

to be honest i havent changed the oil at all as its only a month old so plenty of oil and pressure there.so theres no dry starts as such first start up was quiet but third or forth was the diesel sound which came from the front this time ?

 

[swampyrbs]

well after all that hassle of fitting both tensioners the rattle is still there so now going to drive it till it breaks as i dont have the time or money to have the internals fixed so maybe itll last or maybe it wont but at least i tried ,thanks for all the help and info once again.richard

 

[kernowman]

Thats a bit of a bummer, Richard. Fortunately, you say it is only a short start-up rattle and not there for a long time and does not occur when driving. If you are going to continue to drive it, hopefully you may get lots more use out of it - there is a good possibility it may not get any worse either - just luck of the draw.
Richard

 

[swampyrbs]

cheers mate, it goes away fairly quickly lasts no longer than a minute ,im happy to carry on driving it for now ,sometimes it will start quietly and after 5 seconds make the dieseling sound ,its more annoying knowing its there than anything

 

[swampyrbs]

could the dieseling sound be something else?

ive been out to start again and have had a listen with a block of wood ,when i hear the diesel sound i listened on and around all the casing where the timing chains run and around tensioners and could only hear the sound of the chain rotating with no loud noise or rubbing on the front and back of engine.when i put the wood on the injector rail it was loud and consistant to the noise i was hearing as dieseling? with the oil cap off i could hear it but not as pronounced but as soon as i put the wood on injector rail it tallied with the loud noise i could hear all along,i know injectors pulse and im buggered if it will start quitley so i can see if the noise i hear dissapates ,is it possible the noise i thought was rattle could be dodgy injectors after all as sometimes the ex will start quietly and after a while the noise appears,this noise (dieseling} dosent appear any other time other than start up or one or two seconds and lasts no longer than a minute or so if left ideling or very soon after putting in drive and moving off any thoughts please? cheers richard