How capable is the 4x4 really?

[Blake D]

I want to know how capable the 4x4 really is.
Here is why i ask........
I recently got my 4x4 working again after banging it w/ a hammer to get the t-case to engague. This had gone out in the only BIG snow we have seen all year and I was frustrated, because last year the same thing had happened when we got 12 inches of snow. But it wasn't the tcase it was the auto hubs not working, the tcase was sending power the axle was turning but the wheels were not being locked in. Well at that time I was told there were no aftermarket manual hubs for the ex so I replaced the one side that was broken and went on. (I now know that mechanic was full of BS or not intrested in applying the Warn hubs which I wish I would have gotten). Someone has told me that to check the hubs turn the front axle and if it locks into the wheels they are working, I have done this and they appear to be working fine. If this information is inaccurate please let me know so i can do a better check. Since I "fixed" the 4x4 from last time I decided I wanted to try it out as well as get it to a place to see under the enging for breather tube location and extension. Well I put it into 4x4 , and everything to my knowldge enguaged. drove up next to a concrete slab about 15 inches high ( little high but similar to an obsticle when off roading) I was on hard gravel for a parking lot. I drove up to the edge stopped then slowly accelerated to creap up onto the slab. Well.. RPMs went up and my back passenger tire began to spin, so I backed off and tried it in 4 low with same results. Now I could have taken it alittle faster and used some inertia to get up but didn't want to hurt my tires or anything else, I wanted to crawl up onto it. Now I have a Stock 94 XLT 4 door except for the 31 BFG ko's and a K&N air filter, my back axcle is a 41 which is 3.23 or something, open. The top of the edge was about even with the center of the hub and there was nothing in the way just my tires touching the ground and the edge, yes I was lined up straight and yes I did the axle hub check after to make sure everything was working.
Now my question is why couldn't i make it up, I know it was a little high but nothing drastic. It is 65 and dry ground so nor climatic causes, it just seems that the front couldn't pull the ex up??? Is there some ratio that you look at to determine example. if it is one inch below the hubs you can make it, even with hubs 50/50 and edge higher than hubs, you better have a locker. It just seems for a rugged 4 wheel drive system it sure isn't impressing me. I know I have a Ex and not a Jeep Or hummer or some smart alick answer like that but I want to know how capable is a stock system and what would i need to get over that lip?

Thanks for reading this and hopefully I can get some educated ahd helpful information

Blake D

 

[mdrut]

Did the front make ANY noise???
With alittle effort, it should have climbed up the curb. The 4x4 is VERY capable.You may want to try the same test, only, don't hit it dead on, allow one tire to walk up at a time. Pull up to it at a slight angle.
The less stress you but on the drive train, the better.
Climbing is about angle of approach, and power distributed between axles and wheels. Thw wheels don't begin to "climb" until the object is below the center line of your axle. If the object is taller then the center line, the axle is "pushing" against it, not climbing. By hitting it at a slight angle, it allows the other 3 wheels to "push" the leading wheel to the point above center, so that it may climb, and in turn,"pull" the other wheels above center..Does any of this make sense??
Think of it like this, which had you rather walk up?? a surface like so...l, or a surface like so...\
Remeber, no matter what rig you are in, driver skill is what makes the BIGGEST difference.

 

[JoshC]

Very well put MDrut, i like that. Made good sense.

Blake--I think part of it might have been the tire size and the gear ratio combined with, what md said, the angle. I'm downing your truck at all buddy believe me. I was kinda thinking the same thing today with my truck, i had to pull a fork lift out that had sunken in the gravel, but after doing nothing but digging holes with my tires i finally noticed that i wasn't heavy enough. I know that is totally different from what MD was saying, but sometimes you just gotta try something else. Oh i ended up pulling the fork lift out with a super duty power stoke, also had some difficulty with that thing, so that made me feel a little better. There's an idea, if you have access to another vehicle with the similar setup, try that and see how it works, just so you can get an idea!

Happy trails!!

 

[Maniak]

One trick (it really does help) is to air down your tires.. If you are at street pressure and try to climb something you tire has to push and climb at the same time.. If you air down your tires some it will comform to the shape of what your climbing AND give you a larger footprint.. The large footprint will let you apply more power before slipping (that is the simple explanation) and having the tire comform to what your climbing will help lessen how much pushing your doing instead of climbing.

Even airing your 31" tires from 30ish to 20ish will really help..

~Mark

 

[Blake D]

I will definately try the angle approach and its good to know that I was probably pushing the slab, that is why the low seemed to "dig" into the gravel. I wanted to know so that if there is something wrong with my particular vehicle i can corect it. Also becoming a capable 4 wheeler is what I would like to do but I honestly thought I needed to go at it straight, i thought the angle idea just didn't seem right? I am looking foward to adding to my vehicle to the full extent that our $ will allow and the MOSTLY my wife is still ok with . My other question would be if attempting to go over something shaped like _^_ you know a "bump" but one big enough you could possibly high center on what is the best approach? Angle once again? If I were to underestimate a bump like this at some time would rock sliders help? I love this site for the ability to teach me about Explorers and cars in general but I would also like to be able to learn driving skills as well.
Thaks MDRUT, JOT017, and MANIAK for such adiquate and clear responses I really appriciate it. Any others comments would also be welcome!
PS is there any spell check, I find myself constantly typing behing what I am thinking and my fingers slipping to different rows, sometimes I reread my own posts and think I must be a moron?!

 

[mdrut]

The ^ is alittle tougher...Approach will depend on the situation..An angle up will work, BUT..What happens whe you go off the other side is what counts...As you drop off the other side, the center of gravity will shift..What will happen, if you are not careful, is the weight will shift to the lower side, possibly causing a roll over.
The best rule of thumb with a "^". Don't do it if the crest/Top is narrower then the wheel base of your rig. Until you get comfortable with your vehicle, and learn it's weight transfer characteristics it is NOT wise to hit any down grade at an angle..This is what everyone refers to as "OFF CAMBER". This will result in a roll over if you are not very careful.

Question on Sliders...Yes and NO, they do protect the rocker panels and underside on vehicle, but they often add a FALSE sense of secruity. What tends to happen with folks who are new to 4 wheeling, they end up getting high centered on their sliders.

Best advice to you, find a 4x club in your area, go out, meet the folks, ride the trails, and live-n-learn.

You will learn more from watching others and trying things yourself, then you will ever learn from reading these forums.

Rick has an awsome site here, but there is no substitute for first hand experience.

BTW...Don't worry about the spelling, the rest of us can figure it out..Most of us use the saem code

 

[Blake D]

Thanks for the replies and views. I have one concern though. Tonight I relocated the breather tubes, I had the front on jack stands. While it was up there I thought I would do the turn the front axle test. Well I could turn it for 6-7 revolutions before anything felt like it would grab, then the passenger side would turn but not the drivers. When watching the shafts that come out of the front diff the passenger would turn and then enguage the atuo hub but the driver side shaft wouldn't turn. I played with it back and forth and occasionaly the driver side shaft would turn but still no engagement, but after doing this sometimes it would enguage the driver side and begin to turn, when I turned the axle the other way though it semed that both hubs let go and I had to repeat the process to get them to enguage. So would this be normal? I tested it after everything was finished on a gravel road in the park, it felt as though it turned on but when I attempted a climb over a small curb, (size of a RR tie) it seemed as though the front wasn't pulling, the the rear pushed the same when I had it on as when I had it off. I have a feeling this is abnormal operation and perhaps a problem with the driver side hub, I had replaced one hub last year but which side currently eludes me. On the other hand could the nonmovement of the driver shaft mean there is a prroblem within the front diff? When I changed the fluid last week it was GROSS but nothing suggested broken gears (didn't suck up any big pieces of metal or anything) How do I go about determining if the front diff is ok and I my hubs are as well? If they are bad I would like to replace them with Warn Manuals but I don't know the price of these and unsure of the labor involved. I really appriciate everyones help as the mechanics in this area are very untrustworthy, (we found a good one for a while but then we went to pick up my then fiance's car and found sever FBI police and Sheriff at the garage, seems he was a good mechanic and honest at repair just enjoyed cranking out Meth in his spare time and enough to require at least a dozen law enforcement officials)
PS not many 4x4 clubs around but I'll check into it, mabye they could give info on good mechanics as well.

Thanks a Million.
I also want to thank all of you for encouragement and information, Dealing with vehicles and their expense can be very overwhelming as well as financially taxing. Being newly married and recently graduating The members of this board have been invaluable for support. THANK YOU ALL.

Blake

 

[JoshC]

Blake--i'm sure i speak for everyone on here when i say you are welcome and that everyone on here has had a problem solved by posting it here. I know i have had a dozen or so. But that is what the board is for, tech help and making friends.

I wish i could help you with the hubs but i don't know a thing about the set up of the first generation explorers, so i don't want to start throwing out ideas at you and lead down the wrong path!

Happy trails!!

 

[Blake D]

I did a search on the Warn hubs and if the hubs need to be replaced I will go with those. My concern however is how do I know it is the hubs? I don't want to replace both sides costing around $200 only to find out the front diff is bad. Could anyone help give me some tests to see if the 4x4 is working, How to check to ensure both hubs are working, and the front diff works properly? Just wanted to add that when in 2wd and I come to a stop occasionally I hear a thunk sound, like when activating the 4wd. Just when I stop and only like every 10 or so times but enough of a sound to concern me. I would have thought it was the transmission but I don't ever notice a problem with it shifting, no hesitation or noise at any other speeds ar downshifting when passing, and wouldn't it do it every time if it was the tranny? Anyhow I appriciate any insight or help. Once I finally get this thing running up to normal I hope to do more interesting things with my ex.
Thanks
Blake

 

[TPLYNCH]

Blake, I'm in a rush so I only skimmed your posts. When you switched to 4x4, how far did you drive before hitting your "bump"?? It takes several revolutions of the wheels for the Autos to lock in I believe. So If you stopped 5ft from your obstacle, switched to 4x4 then drove forward, the hubs wouldn't have had a chance to lock in yet. I'm not an expert on this, so maybe someone more familiar with Autohub ops can correct me....

 

[88vert]

The clunk your hearing when coming to a stop in 2wheel drive is probally your slip yoke for the driveshaft,mine used to do that all the time,now I grease it a least twice a year.

 

[Blake D]

Thanks fo rthe reply guys, I know long threads tend not to be read, sorry. I just like to make sure youall know everything I can think of.
I took it to a local offroad place and they checked it out and said it was the hub I didn't replace last time :fire: Stupid me for not doing that then, but I am getting the WARN manual hubs by the end of this week , $136 plus $40 labor. I could have done it myself but didn't have the time. Hopefully this will cure it. Oh yeah, I had to smack the Tcase motor again to get it to work, probably need to take it off and clean it, but I'll wait till a couple wacks aren't good enough. I would grease the slip yolk if I know what it was and where it is at on my 94?
Thanks Blake

 

[88vert]

Just take the one side of your rear driveshaft down,and cut the band and seperate them and use a good moly grease and grease the **** out of the spline,put it back together and your problem with the clunk should be over.

 

[zensius]

You also mentioned I think that the obstacle you were trying to climb was about as high as the center of your hubs. That's pretty high. That means if it's a vertical obstacle that you tires aren't really inclined to climb it. They are pushing it like you said. I wouldn't expect any wheeler to climb a vertical obstacle that was as tall as the midpoint on the wheels. No matter how modded.

 

[Blake D]

Yeah, but I tried them out other than that, in a gravel lot just got the rear tires to spin and the front didn't bind or pull or much of anything. So hopefully the hubs will make the difference.

 

[holptj]

BD have you checked out Dead Link Removed ? As a fellow newbie to the sport, I found the tips very useful.

Truthfully, we bought our X for trips north in the winter - and it turned out to be as great in snow as we expected. Now I find that my interest in doing some trails has peaked since reading this board. As we are new to TN, I'm looking at several local clubs to see if they are worth joining.

Anyway, practice is the best way to learn, but you may find the site helpful too.

Cheers,
Tim