Howing noise - wheel bearing?

[SHUMAX]

I even watched a few videos and went back out, jacked up each side one at a time, and took a large pry bar and attempted to lift the wheel from the bottom to check the ball joint (lower), no movement. Not sure about the tie rods but would have thought that would have surfaced during the alignment Monday?

Goes in tomorrow at 10am. I am sure they will want to try and balance things. I am not comfortable with that as it is smooth at every other speed and the road force numbers were VERY low already.

Will report back tomorrow by lunch, I am sure....

Shumax

 

[pup5581]

I even watched a few videos and went back out, jacked up each side one at a time, and took a large pry bar and attempted to lift the wheel from the bottom to check the ball joint (lower), no movement. Not sure about the tie rods but would have thought that would have surfaced during the alignment Monday?

Goes in tomorrow at 10am. I am sure they will want to try and balance things. I am not comfortable with that as it is smooth at every other speed and the road force numbers were VERY low already.

Will report back tomorrow by lunch, I am sure....

Shumax

Explain the roughness and noise....sounds like a hub issue as well...sometimes you have to exaggerate with them to get them onto a problem

 

[SHUMAX]

Explain the roughness and noise....sounds like a hub issue as well...sometimes you have to exaggerate with them to get them onto a problem

The "roughness" was only present when I had the Alenz'a installed. Even the Hankook's with 67k did not exhibit the "roughness" the Alenza's did. I'm nearly convinced I just had a bad set. I say that because just a month prior, I had the exact same tire (18", though) installed on my wife's Edge. Smooth and quiet, which is what led me to buy them for the EX.

The "roughness" felt like studded snow tires. I could feel each revolution of the tire resonate up through the floor board, the steering wheel, pedals, etc. It's not vibration from the tires not being balanced - it's a resonance you feel from tires being course. I liken it to dragging an SOS pad across concrete. You just "feel" that roughness. It's not like tire vibration, which is a pulsation. Also note that the alignment was set at the exact same time - all within specs.

Make sense?

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

At the dealer now. They went through the front end and said everything is like new, including the U joints, etc. Had another tech go through it, too. Same conclusion. Took them for a ride and they see the issue, too. It will start around 55mph and stop at 62mph. Sometimes it is there, others it is not. Random. They all discussed and said we can start the process of elimination and see what it is. I hear $. First up, today, is brakes. True up the front rotors and clean the calipers up and slide pins to be sure nothing is hanging up. They are going to check the bearing again very closely with the wheel off to be sure that is not the issue. They said an axle was next, but doubted it as it was at a specific range and not always there.

I'm glad they saw it, agree something is going on and they are willing to dig into it. I feared I would be pushed out the door as an "overly sensitive" individual. With that said, I'm in the same boat. Sitting here now waiting to see what they come up with on the brakes...

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

The tech, who I have connected with, came out and said the lower slide pin on the left side was stuck to the point he had a hard time moving the caliper on the rotor. He took it out and cleaned it up on the grinder and lubed it up and everything was moving well now, he said. He also said they put the stethoscope on the bearings and nothing was making noise EXCEPT for the passengers rear. He said no others made noise and no play. He said the right rear isn't bad, but is making some noise. Doubt that would cause an issue in the FRONT. He suggested leaving it be until it made noise or caused other issues since it wasn't loose. I agreed.

Should have it buttoned up here soon and on the road. Sure hope that was the issue, but I am skeptical.

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Just returned from a drive. Seems to be slightly improved, but I only drove 5-6 miles on it.

I'm going to have to take a break from it for a while as I have to use the car for a while on trips, etc. We'll see if it gets worse/better and go from there. Maybe the other party will find a solution before me!

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Just an update. Vehicle sat for 17 hours. Drove it this morning in the rain. Hit 50mph and it was wobbling, which is about 8-10mph sooner. I suspect/hope that was due to some flat spotting. I can appreciate that happening with how large the tires are. Warmed up, though, it still has the wobble at 58-62mph.

I have 2k until the next oil change. At that time, it will be chefs choice. Do I have the dealer replace both front bearings? Or, do I tell them to replace both front axles? I will also have the Road Force figures checked again.

Any thoughts?
Shumax

 

[HamHands]

Just an update. Vehicle sat for 17 hours. Drove it this morning in the rain. Hit 50mph and it was wobbling, which is about 8-10mph sooner. I suspect/hope that was due to some flat spotting. I can appreciate that happening with how large the tires are. Warmed up, though, it still has the wobble at 58-62mph.

I have 2k until the next oil change. At that time, it will be chefs choice. Do I have the dealer replace both front bearings? Or, do I tell them to replace both front axles? I will also have the Road Force figures checked again.

Any thoughts?
Shumax

When you say you had the dealer clean the pins in the brakes you mean the pistons right? The pistons in the caliper press against the back side of the brake pad and the pad grips the disc. All pistons eventually stick a little bit but I'm certain that is not causing the vibes and never would. A stuck brake caliper piston could cause steering drag and resemble an alignment issue but that is not the issue here. Either way, glad that piston is like butter now.

On to your question as to having Both the front bearings replaced... Absolutely! I don't care what sized stethoscope the techs used; what you are describing are bad Hub unit bearings. They are NOT full blown bad, but one or both are going. It only takes one slightly deformed, defective, or out of spec ball bearing in the whole Hub unit to start the process going downhill pretty easily.

If it was a CV axle problem it would be present at almost all speeds and would get worse the faster you go and the sharper the turn you make. I've dealt with that problem on a SHO. That said, pull it up on some ramps (or sturdy Jack Stands), and inspect the CV boots for leaks just for peace of mind and to remove this variable from the equation. Just a flashlight shining on them can easily tell if grease is dripping from a cracked/busted/torn CV axle boot. In my experience CV axles stay clean/lubed and work fine until those boots crack and get road debris in them; causing them to fail. If you don't see any grease dripping out of the boots then they are good to go.

 

[HamHands]

SHU, I'm 99.9% sure your problem ISN"T the tierod ends but I've linked a video for you to watch just to see how to check and replace them if they ever do become a problem. Post # 2 down, (9) minute video; Enjoy!

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/how-do-i-know-if-i-need-tie-rod-ends-my-02-overland-1253291/

 

[SHUMAX]

When you say you had the dealer clean the pins in the brakes you mean the pistons right? The pistons in the caliper press against the back side of the brake pad and the pad grips the disc. All pistons eventually stick a little bit but I'm certain that is not causing the vibes and never would. A stuck brake caliper piston could cause steering drag and resemble an alignment issue but that is not the issue here. Either way, glad that piston is like butter now.

On to your question as to having Both the front bearings replaced... Absolutely! I don't care what sized stethoscope the techs used; what you are describing are bad Hub unit bearings. They are NOT full blown bad, but one or both are going. It only takes one slightly deformed, defective, or out of spec ball bearing in the whole Hub unit to start the process going downhill pretty easily.

If it was a CV axle problem it would be present at almost all speeds and would get worse the faster you go and the sharper the turn you make. I've dealt with that problem on a SHO. That said, pull it up on some ramps (or sturdy Jack Stands), and inspect the CV boots for leaks just for peace of mind and to remove this variable from the equation. Just a flashlight shining on them can easily tell if grease is dripping from a cracked/busted/torn CV axle boot. In my experience CV axles stay clean/lubed and work fine until those boots crack and get road debris in them; causing them to fail. If you don't see any grease dripping out of the boots then they are good to go.

No, sir. They cleaned up the caliper slider pins - top and bottom.

The Axles look great, honestly. No cracks, grease issues. Nothing. Now, I've not seen them in motion, though. Axles would also cause an issue, too, when turning or accelerating/deaccelerating. None of which I have an issue with.

So, I am going to push forward with two new wheel bearings in the front. I may wait until the oil change in 2k, though. Wheel bearings are static items, so I don't think an alignment will be necessary after replacement - is that correct?

Thanks for the feedback and involvement - much appreciated!
Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

SHU, I'm 99.9% sure your problem ISN"T the tierod ends but I've linked a video for you to watch just to see how to check and replace them if they ever do become a problem. Post # 2 down, (9) minute video; Enjoy!

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/how-do-i-know-if-i-need-tie-rod-ends-my-02-overland-1253291/

Hey, brother - that's my nickname with my friends - SHU. I got a laugh out of that; thanks!

I gave them a hell of a shake in the garage two days ago - loaded and unloaded. No movement at all.

Appreciate the thought, though!
Shu

 

[SHUMAX]

My wife put about 200 miles on it yesterday. I drove it this morning and it's getting worse. It's now shaking all of the time at 55mph-65mph. It never stops. A couple of times, I felt it at 50mph, too.

Also, that rear wheel bearing the tech pointed out was noisy? Guess what? I can now hear it. It's make the "baseball card in a bicycle wheel" noise - real noticeable at 25-40mph before the road noise takes it over.

I thought I would wait for the oil change, but I'm not going to. Sounds like three wheel bearings coming - one for the passengers rear and two in the front. That means four new wheel bearings now.

Shumax

 

[HamHands]

No, sir. They cleaned up the caliper slider pins - top and bottom.

The Axles look great, honestly. No cracks, grease issues. Nothing. Now, I've not seen them in motion, though. Axles would also cause an issue, too, when turning or accelerating/deaccelerating. None of which I have an issue with.

So, I am going to push forward with two new wheel bearings in the front. I may wait until the oil change in 2k, though. Wheel bearings are static items, so I don't think an alignment will be necessary after replacement - is that correct?

Thanks for the feedback and involvement - much appreciated!
Shumax

No problem, I like to help! Sounds like your CV's are solid.

As to the question about the alignment after a HUB unit replacement, true they are a static part... but anytime I've replaced a suspension/steering component I've had a front end alignment done every time. You might not even need it but for the peace of mind, and being that most shops will warranty an alignment for 1 year or 12K miles, I'd personally go ahead and get it done. But if you don't feel like it needs it then don't. You can pretty much tell if the alignment is out or not after driving 5-10 miles or so by the way it pulls.

 

[HamHands]

Hey, brother - that's my nickname with my friends - SHU. I got a laugh out of that; thanks!

I gave them a hell of a shake in the garage two days ago - loaded and unloaded. No movement at all.

Appreciate the thought, though!
Shu

Hahaha, that's great! I figured your tie rods were fine but just wanted you to view the video for future reference. I learned so much from Jeepforum.com and owning that vehicle for 10+ years. It all translates to other vehicles as well which is nice. Anyway I can help just let me know!

-HamHands

 

[HamHands]

My wife put about 200 miles on it yesterday. I drove it this morning and it's getting worse. It's now shaking all of the time at 55mph-65mph. It never stops. A couple of times, I felt it at 50mph, too.

Also, that rear wheel bearing the tech pointed out was noisy? Guess what? I can now hear it. It's make the "baseball card in a bicycle wheel" noise - real noticeable at 25-40mph before the road noise takes it over.

I thought I would wait for the oil change, but I'm not going to. Sounds like three wheel bearings coming - one for the passengers rear and two in the front. That means four new wheel bearings now.

Shumax

I think you're making the right decision SHU... (4) Hub Unit bearings and your Exp will ride close to how she did when you drove it off the lot. Those Ohio winters, the salt, the brine, etc... those are very harsh on undercarriage, wheel, and driveline components.

I bought a used Taurus SHO from North Dakota in college and the Hubs, CV boots, Crankshaft Position Sensor & seals, Alternator, and a whole host of other salt & corrosion sensitive parts all had to be replaced by me and my dad in our garage when I was a broke college kid. Salt water and salty slush is a real destructive force on these components. I'm willing to bet that the aforementioned are the reason your Hub units have started to fail prematurely. The good thing is that the price of them is pretty reasonable for the OEM parts. I don't know what Ford wants to charge to put them on but definitely haggle with them a bit. For the fact your Ex is only 4 years old and it needs new HUB's all around they might be sympathetic if you talk to the right person...

 

[pup5581]

My wife put about 200 miles on it yesterday. I drove it this morning and it's getting worse. It's now shaking all of the time at 55mph-65mph. It never stops. A couple of times, I felt it at 50mph, too.

Also, that rear wheel bearing the tech pointed out was noisy? Guess what? I can now hear it. It's make the "baseball card in a bicycle wheel" noise - real noticeable at 25-40mph before the road noise takes it over.

I thought I would wait for the oil change, but I'm not going to. Sounds like three wheel bearings coming - one for the passengers rear and two in the front. That means four new wheel bearings now.

Shumax

At dealers cost or yours? I HOPE my dealer foots the cots for at least some new front hubs for me since i think that's my issue.

Worst case i pay for it...they aren't expensive at all for the hub unit with the bearing already pressed in. If you are buying on your own let me know..i found OEM for $96 each shipped

 

[SHUMAX]

When they replaced my other rear wheel bearing, the part was $109 and they charged $200 in labor. There was a note about extra labor needed. I remember them telling me they had to heat it up cherry red to remove the old one.

So, I will have $330 for three bearings, plus the labor. I would hope they cut me a break and not hit me for $600 in labor ($200x3bearings).

 

[pup5581]

When they replaced my other rear wheel bearing, the part was $109 and they charged $200 in labor. There was a note about extra labor needed. I remember them telling me they had to heat it up cherry red to remove the old one.

So, I will have $330 for three bearings, plus the labor. I would hope they cut me a break and not hit me for $600 in labor ($200x3bearings).

You don't have a local mechanic you use? Because you can find the parts cheaper online OEM and cheaper labor


Like if i end up doing the two front hubs myself...they will be say like $196 for parts for both..and he would maybe charge 150-175 in labor. I can't imagine what the dealer would charge me

 

[HamHands]

I think I would find a good shop to install those (3) hub units instead of Ford if they aren't going to give you a break on that labor. (I think they should/would give you a break to do (3) though.) I've changed HUB's before and it isn't as hard as they are making it out to be. A 5lb sledge and some "PB Blaster" penetrating oil goes a long way in influencing corroded suspension/steering components to come lose...

 

[SHUMAX]

This is actually a fleet vehicle for me. Nice fleet vehicle, I know. So, it is all billed to a master account. I am careful with it as I do not want them abusing the situation. But, going to another party other than the dealer is tough given this situation.

I already have two parties involved - Ford dealer for this stuff and a local Firestone for the tires and lifetime alignment...

It's getting complicated, let me tell you! Geesh!
Shumax