ID wires on starter solenoid - parasitic battery drain

[fornoni]

Hello from a Ford noob! - I have been asked to help figure out what is draining the battery in my bro-in-law's '97 Explorer V6 4.0 sohc 4x4.

Long story short - Today, we concluded that reconnecting only the bottom portion of the "red wire set" (2 lugs are molded into black plastic with red wires coming out) to it's threaded post (lower) on solenoid mounted on the drivers fenderwell showed a 0.2a draw on the DVM. - no other wires were connected to the solenoid.

To accomplish this feat, we had the (-) terminal connected to the battery, and the (+) terminal NOT connected to the battery post. With the DVM configured to read amps, one lead touching the the (+) battery wire and the other lead on the lower threaded post. Touching what appears to be the heavier gauge wire to the solenoid produced the draw on the meter.

We didn't have time to further investigate but now would like to know where that wire comes from / goes to?

Does it sound like we were we doing this right?

 

[Flash]

Do you mean the starter solenoid?

 

[fornoni]

Yes - the starter solenoid on the fenderwell. Which wires are for what?

 

[koda2000]

if you have a fender mounted stater solenoid (Ford stopped using them at some point in the mid 90's) there's battery + in, battery + out (to the starter) and a wire coming from rhe ignition switch to a terminal usually marked "S" (start). the soleniod is/or should be grounded by being firmly attached to something metal. when you turn the ignition key to the start position, power flows to the soleniod, energizing it. the soloenoid then transfers power to the starter motor making it spin. a test you can easily do, with a small piece of scrap wire, is to jump the solenoid from the battery side to the "S" teminal. the starter should spin. if not, either the starter, solenoid, battery connection or solenoid ground is bad. if the starter spins, the problem is on the ignition switch side.

 

[fornoni]

Thanks Koda - that is what I suspected - this is on a '97. There are 2 other wires grouped onto the battery side of the solenoid -
One appears to go to the under hood fuse box (black)
The other (grey) goes to ?

The heavier gauge red wire I would guess goes directly to the battery, but we found that upon connecting just that wire (nothing else on the solenoid) the .2A draw appears.

Does anyone know if the (+) battery wire branches off / connects elsewhere before the solenoid?

We plan to dig deeper this weekend. The battery is fine - I've been driving it here & there but if I park for longer than a few minutes I disconnect the battery. Holds a charge just fine, starts right away.

 

[koda2000]

even with the key off there's some power being used for the anti-theft system, clock & i'm guessing the ecu. 2 amp doesn't seem they unusual.

 

[budwich]

Thanks Koda - that is what I suspected - this is on a '97. There are 2 other wires grouped onto the battery side of the solenoid -
One appears to go to the under hood fuse box (black)
The other (grey) goes to ?

The heavier gauge red wire I would guess goes directly to the battery, but we found that upon connecting just that wire (nothing else on the solenoid) the .2A draw appears.

Does anyone know if the (+) battery wire branches off / connects elsewhere before the solenoid?

We plan to dig deeper this weekend. The battery is fine - I've been driving it here & there but if I park for longer than a few minutes I disconnect the battery. Holds a charge just fine, starts right away.

... I think all you succeeded in doing was measuring the current draw of the starter relay coil plus any accessories there in. I doubt very seriously that's got anything at all to do with your problem. Usually when one is looking for "unusual draws", you disconnect things in the fuse box area (via fuse removal) while monitoring the current drain at the battery. When you pull a fuse and the draw drops to what you "expect", you have found your culprit. OF course, in your case, you do this test with key in OFF since you are indicating that is the "condition" you are interested in. Further, the current drain in that state WILL NOT be an issue for most meters...

 

[fornoni]

Thanks budwich, we'll run through the fusebox(s) again.

[edit] wiring diagram gold mine

After looking at the "Starting Circuit, A/T diagram" from the link above, the only other power path I could have been measuring is to the magnetic plunger in the starter motor. Has anyone ever heard of an electrical "leak" in the starter??

Once again, I'm pretty sure we had no other wires connected to the solenoid (relay in the diagram) when we saw amperage on the meter (only what I labeled as "to batt(+)" connected). So the only other power path is via the magnetic plunger.

 

[budwich]

OK.... let's back up a bit. With the picture you posted above as a reference, please indicate which wires were connected for your test... AND exactly how you connected your meter AND what you thought you were measuring (ie. voltage, current, ???). Then we can go from there. Although, it would appear from your testing that there is "contact leakage" in the relay... have you tried replacing it yet?

further, if you remove all wire connection at the relay and then do a resistance measurement (to a known ground) on the same contact that you were using before you "confirm" your results / procedures.

 

[fornoni]

Parasitic Battery drain v2.0

Ok - Update (thanks for your input so far budwich!)
Clean slate - forget that nonsense above
We started at square one this morning, this time with a test light which led us right to a relay...

Test conditions:
All fuses in place.
Battery completely disconnected (so it won't go dead)

Test procedure:
Open hood
Connect (-) terminal to battery
Connect test light between the (+) terminal and the (+) batt. post.

Result:
The test light blinks.

Investigation:

• Pull dash fuse #25 = no more test light blink.
• Plug dash fuse #25 back in, test light blinks and also notice the sound of a relay tick with the blink.
• Find relay under dash; Find relay diagram:
• 
  
  
• With the "battery saver relay" missing, the test light no longer blinks.
• 
  
  
  
• Find appropriate wiring diagram (huge image)
• So now we're wondering why the battery saver relay is clicking....
  The test light blinks and the relay clicks about every 3 seconds
  
  Replace the Generic Electronic Control module? That appears to be what controls the relay.
  
  No more time to further investigate today
  

 

[koda2000]

are all your interior lights working normally?

i was cleaning the interior on one of my trucks (a 2000 Mountaineer) and after many hours, the interior lights started going off and then they'd come back on again for a few seconds, then go off again. i could hear a relay clicking in the dash. it turned out i had a weak battery and the interior lights eventually nearly drained it flat. i thought the "battery saver relay was supposed to prevent this from happening, but whatever. not exactly your problem, but maybe there's a clue in there somewhere.

 

[budwich]

OK... I probably should have provide a "few more steps" in your "investigation" as its not as plain and simple as I set out... I thought you would be aware of a few things with "modern cars".

First, there was a meter suggestion... why because you can get an actual reading. This is your "base draw"...... but not quite yet... because your system has a "computer" in it which does a "whole whack of things" when various "events" happen... like removing cables, like opening / closing doors, etc... You can't just do things "bam, bam" and expect to get a "normal base level" current draw reading. As you have found, the battery relay is being operated... that's most likely because your control module was "re-powered" with the "re-connection" and / or you have a door open or other "events". The relay stays powered for a "bit" then drops.

So you need to leave your system connected (with the meter involved) for a "bit" to get to "steady state sleep" mode.... then take a reading / watch the meter. Then start pulling fuses and watching (and crossing fingers). Note: your driver's door will likely have to remain open to access one of the fuse panel (or you can fool the system by disconnecting the door switch). In theory, your battery saver relay should eventually drop to save your battery... You should be able to then test from there. Drains are usually hard to find unless you notice some thing obvious... eg. windows still work after the key is removed and doors have been opened / closed.... likely cause accessory relay stuck.... etc. Good luck in your hunt.

The last question which should have been the first.... why do your think you have a parasitic drain issue? What is your current draw with key off? As previous poster indicated... what's the battery like?

 

[Markaprice73]

This should help. Good luck
Video:How To Perform a Parasitic Draw Test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0

 

[fornoni]

Thanks for the video Markaprice73!

This thread I found just now describes the exact scenario we have (right down to the blinking 4x4 lights I saw today). Bro-in-law is out of town but left his Explorer here. I've confirmed over the past 2 days that it starts up just fine if either the battery saver relay is removed, or the #25 fuse is left out. Both connected, the battery goes dead.
budwich I get it now...wasn't expecting the "GEM" to draw so much for so long. Bro-in-law insists the battery is new(er). Maybe I'll run it over to the local auto parts store and get it load tested to be sure it's good!
If it tests good, I'll check if the GEM ever drops out with the meter.

Thanks for the help!

[update] Battery load tests good so I ordered a GEM.

Also noticed today the climate control temperature control dial has nearly no effect - always hot air. On full cold (no A/C on) it does blow marginally less hot.

[update II]...oh, the blend door huh...