Is anyone else working HHO projects...

[bse068]

My project is progressing much slower than I have planned. As I have been contemplating other devices to complete my setup, "Do any other members have an HHO project currently in progress?".

 

[FIND]

You might find your project progresses faster if you put your money directly in the toilet. It will save you a lot of time that you can then spend doing things that actually work and don't violate the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[bse068]

It seems that whenever someone begins to be creative there is always a naysayer standing right behind him saying, "You can't do it.". If you can't think outside of the box, then you will never achieve anything. However, there are others out there who believe that we can achieve and that we can succeed. I grew up in a country where we are allowed to think beyond the status quo. We have accomplished so much because so many scientists and regular men and women decided to be creative and take an almost inconceivable idea and turn into reality. Automobiles that can travel at speeds of more than one mile per minute. Airplanes that can travel at the speed of sound. Computers sitting in every home. The challenge issued by the President to put a man on the moon. The idea of the space shuttle became a reality. I am one of those people who still believe that we can always do better than the status quo. Tell me I can't, and I will prove you wrong.

As a supplemental fuel additive, HHO is within the reach of the common people. You drive a vehicle that in the not so distant past was theorized not be be able to achieve the gas mileage that it does. If you believe that your vehicle is the best that will ever be then you have lost the ability to be creative and to strive for something beyond your understanding. You are a closed book.

I will keep striving along with others to believe that we can better ourselves and the world in which we live in. The I.C.E is nothing more than a tool that needs to be improved upon. If they can program a car's computer to make it achieve higher speeds, they can program a vehicle's computer to get better gas mileage. The technology is available.

In closing, if you can't add anything positive to the conversation then be content to be nothing more than an end user and say nothing at all.

 

[FIND]

I guess I could link you to tests performed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, by dozens of automotive rags and universities, and I could explain why gaining better fuel economy using an HHO generator violates the laws of physics and thermodynamics, or I could point out all the psuedoscientific bullshit on any of those HHO pages and tell you how to tune your engine without wasting your time and money on your HHO generator, but that would be too negative for you right? I mean, as long as I am not telling you that an HHO generator will give you better fuel economy and cure Grandpa's chronic back pain while ending third world hunger, I'm just a naysayer...

Don't start comparing yourself to astronauts and inventors because you are trying to use something people have been putting in cars for 50 years now that still hasn't worked, aside from the statements from some people are confused because other changes they make increase their fuel economy, then they attribute it to their HHO generator.

There is no such thing as free energy.

But yeah, sure. Go ahead and prove me, and thousands of other scientists and engineers wrong. Just save your "naysayer" speech for when you actually do anything. I can build a water electrolysis device and wire a couple potentiometers and resistors to my MAF in under an hour for under 20 bucks with parts I can get at any radio shack and hardware store. You can't even finish that step.

Come back when you know enough physics to understand what needs to be improved in an ICE. Then, I would be happy to explain to you why an HHO generator is so inefficient. Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with what they try and say when trying to sell you a "dry-cell generator". By the way, even Nikola Tesla thought that generating hydrogen through electrolysis in this manner was woefully inefficient... But I'm sure he is just a naysayer and a closed book too.

 

[2000StreetRod]

EFIE first

As I have posted before, fuel economy can be improved at the expense of increased noxious emissions. The easiest way is with a custom tune that increases the Air/Fuel ratio to the optimum for fuel economy. The second easiest is to add an electronic fuel injection enhancer (EFIE). Most HHO users eventually add one to "outsmart" the PCM. I suggest you start with adding an EFIE. You can supplement your catalytic converter to decrease the emissions associated with the leaner mixture. Just be advised that your combustion chamber temperatures will increase with the leaner mixture and the life of your valves and pistons may decrease. Leaning the mixture is safer with an engine equipped with a knock sensor to reduce/prevent detonation. On the 2nd generation Explorers only the SOHC V6 has a knock sensor. If you want to run extremely lean then you should add an exhaust gas temperature sensor/indicator.

 

[bse068]

Project comments...

FIND...If that is the way that you feel regarding this topic, I guess there is no need for you to continue to make any comments regarding this matter on someone else's thread. Perhaps...You should start your own thread.
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2000StreetRod...Thank you for your input. I am only at the beginning of the project. Currently, I have only purchased two of the components needed for the project. The EFIE is the next component that I intend to purchase. I have researched several of these, and I am currently in the final stage of selecting one for my project. The systematic monitoring of the engine is quite another matter. There are so many products to use for the obd2 system and several different interfaces and software options. My wish list is the Scangauge and SCT tuner with custom tunes. I have also looked into the UltraGauge for monitoring of the engine parameters. I looked into a PC based setup which would allow me to view the systems parameters.

In this post, I was asking if anyone was still doing this type of project. The thread had seemed to come to a stand still for some reason. My goal was just to increase the mpg of my two ton, two tone, rolling brick and in no way compare it to a Toyota Prius or Honda Civic.

 

[FIND]

I post in these threads because I don't want others to be misinformed. If you don't like people responding to your threads, don't post on the internet.

 

[bse068]

Then go start your own thread and you can post all of the information that you want!!!

 

[albi1cnobi1]

bse068, Don't get rattled. Find may be a bit fervent, but he is right to some degree. I say that only in the respect that if someone was to believe that an HHO generator produces "free" energy, then that would violate the laws of physics and thermodynamics like Find said. However the only people saying this are the unscrupulous ones trying to sell cheap products that don't work and ripping off people who don't do their research and therefor don't know any better. There is a cost, or loss so to speak, for any energy generation. But done correctly with an efficient design, these losses are kept low enough so that the gains in fuel economy are realized. Don't be fooled by the sites that claim "100%" increases in mileage gains. That's not going to happen. But if done right you could see 15-25% increases. I've been running an HHO system for a couple of years now and have personally documented an average of 20% improvements. I've seen as high as 25%, but I use my truck for both on and off road so I haven't done some things that could increase my efficiency, so I average about 20%. You're on the right track looking at EFIE's, you'll need one to offset the added oxygen in the exhaust. Also 2000streetrod is correct, using an EFIE to lean out your mixture by itself is not a good idea. Higher exhaust temps are a real issue. An EFIE used with an HHO cell is only used to combat the problem of the added oxygen that the cats see as a "lean condition". The PCM then dumps more fuel to fix the lean condition and thus negates any improvements from the HHO. One final thought then I'll sit back and wait for all the rants to start. HHO doesn't supplement or replace the fuel your engine is running on. It enables less fuel to be consumed because it causes a more complete burn of the fuel in the cylinder. This is why when you add HHO to the mix your emissions are improved, because a great deal of unburnt fuel is removed from the exhaust gases. Good luck with your project. And make sure you get input from many different sources, the more informed you are the better off you are.

 

[bse068]

Thank you albi1cnobi1..."FIND" is the only one who mentioned "free energy". As I originally stated, my goal for this project was to increase my miles per gallon. My 1996 Explorer still manages 20mpg on the highway. It is just a stock every day daily driver. I am not trying to build a 40mpg beast that will compete with modern day hybrids. Also, I am not trying to run a nearly 20 year old ICE on 100% HHO. You will never hear me speak of the using the generator to produce only hydrogen. I know what it is and exactly what it produces. The combination of the two gases will be introduced into the air intake system.

I realize the dangers of running a vehicle at extremely lean levels, and I am never going to subject my vehicle to those conditions. I began researching this project several years ago when I came across the prolific and informative postings of Zerofossilfuel on youtube.

I have no intention of irresponsibly disposing of the electrolyte solution. I will test with the 316L stainless steel wire then store the electrolyte solution prior to taking it to our local hazardous waste site for proper disposal. I will us the appropriate HAZMAT Label. Following the testing, the SS will be replaced with Titanium wire.

An EGT sensor is part of the project but from what I understand by the time the EGT has been read, the damage to the engine has already occurred. I have read where the recommendation is to check the temperature at the cylinder heads.

Yes, I agree that there are several scammers out there involved with the production of HHO. I have read their materials and decided to move on whenever I come across their postings. Many of the units available are over priced and others make outlandish claims of HHO production. "Boiling the electrolyte solution and producing steam" is not HHO Production.

Research is the key to making the correct purchases for any project.