Is it me or is everyone stuck on flowmaster?

[aeaglenfitch]

i hears magnaflow sounds ricy on the 4.0 so i went with flowmaster

 

[Mtn8er]

Asolutely not. In fact, the exact opposite is true. It's well known that Flowmaster is among the worst-flowing aftermarket mufflers available. Magnaflow, on the other hand, is amongst the best. Any straight-through muffler is going to flow better than any chambered muffler.

-Chris

+1 According to Joe Sherman (one of the best engine builders in the business) swears by Magnaflow. That's all he uses and has dyno tests to prove it. I don't know about Flowmaster being the worst, I'm just speaking of what I have read and researched about Magnaflow.

 

[aeaglenfitch]

i thought we needed back pressure for low end torque, im confuzed, i need low end cuz my truck is for wheelin, idk about u guys

 

[NitrousJunky]

I would recomend SpinTechs they sound bettter than Flowmasters and flow way better.
We have tested MANY mufflers on the flowbench and Flowmasters are not great flowing mufflers.
I would also go with a true 2.5" single system.
Thats my 2 cents yes I'm new to this site but I build fast cars on a daily basis. And when I say fast I mean street cars that go low 11's in the quater mile on street tires.
Here is a link to there site.....http://www.spintechmufflers.com/spintech/spintechindex.asp

If not I would run a DNA muffler......http://www.dnamufflers.com/DNA/main_DNA.html

 

[Afboy143]

I just like flowmaster because I like the chambered sound. Eventho they obviously dont flow as well as a magna since they are chambered, they sound better. Does the flow really matter on a 4.0 V6 210 HP motor?

When I was running a true dual set up, I lost low end power which I am guessing came from loss of backpressure. When I went to a single 2.5", I gained all my lowend back

 

[Afboy143]

im not feelin the sound of the spintech mufflers

 

[NitrousJunky]

I just like flowmaster because I like the chambered sound. Eventho they obviously dont flow as well as a magna since they are chambered, they sound better. Does the flow really matter on a 4.0 V6 210 HP motor?

When I was running a true dual set up, I lost low end power which I am guessing came from loss of backpressure. When I went to a single 2.5", I gained all my lowend back

Well on a V-6 I would of put a 2.25" single system with a free flowing muffler for that exact reason. Besides backpressure you loose exhaust volocity with the bigger pipe.

im not feelin the sound of the spintech mufflers

Yeah not sure how they would sound on a V-6 anyways..... But the sound that made FlowMaster what they are today has been gone for years!! They redesigned in 98 to gain more flow and lost most of the tingy pop can sound that made them famous from the 5.0 Mustangs. Sh_t I know people that pay $300 + for a pair of the original Flows.
Most of my customers will take a 5-10 horsepower loss to get the sound they want. You can't feel that little bit of difference anyways.

 

[Afboy143]

Well on a V-6 I would of put a 2.25" single system with a free flowing muffler for that exact reason. Besides backpressure you loose exhaust volocity with the bigger pipe.


Yeah not sure how they would sound on a V-6 anyways..... But the sound that made FlowMaster what they are today has been gone for years!! They redesigned in 98 to gain more flow and lost most of the tingy pop can sound that made them famous from the 5.0 Mustangs. Sh_t I know people that pay $300 + for a pair of the original Flows.
Most of my customers will take a 5-10 horsepower loss to get the sound they want. You can't feel that little bit of difference anyways.

Exactly, sound makes a world of a difference in the driving experience of a car. I love having exhaust. These original flowmaster mufflers you speak of---these arent the "original 40's"? How exactly were the originals designed?

 

[CDW6212R]

Backpressure is bad for horsepower, but low end torque is improved with properly tuned merging pipe sizes. Meaning that the headers are critical to the power band, top end power, and low end torque. Headers are about five times more important than the rest of the exhaust.

The SOHC stock headers are great, you won't gain much from any other header. That is because they are already properly sized, not perfect, but very close. The 302 Explorer headers suck, period. Any header made by anyone will be a major improvement. The FMS headers are somewhat better, only because the stockers are so bad. The Torque Monster headers are much better, very close to ideal for a stock Explorer 302. They are very inadequate for any engine making more than 350hp, which is a very easy goal to surpass. A real high performance Explorer V8 needs at least 1.625" primaries, which is average or small for millions of Mustang 302's running everywhere.

The cat pipes are more important than the back half of the system. As the exhaust flows along, the backpressure is less and less, and far less critical. If you have very good headers and cat pipes, the mufflers and other pipes will not hurt performance in any noticeable way. Make them too big if you want to, but don't overdue the cat pipes or headers.

You can choke an engine down with tiny little tailpipes or mufflers, but nobody is doing that. Everyone is pushing the large size range, not the small.

Worry about the headers and cat pipes for power and torque, and power band. Select the back half(the cat back) based solely on the sound that you want, the difference in power will be likely less than 10hp from top to bottom. Regards,

 

[Makahveli]

i DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU ALL BUT i RUN A BORLA EXHAUST SETUP! If you watch the for sale forun long enough a muffler of theirs will pop up very cheap!

 

[NitrousJunky]

Exactly, sound makes a world of a difference in the driving experience of a car. I love having exhaust. These original flowmaster mufflers you speak of---these arent the "original 40's"? How exactly were the originals designed?

No they are different. We have sold FlowMaster for years and the rep said it was due to a change in tooling that changed the chamber shaping inside and gained flow while reducing cost for them.
You can tell right off the bat when you hear a "real" classic versus a original 40. Like I said they just lack what we refer to as the pop can (tingy) sound. It is crazy the money people are paying for originals when they pop up on racingjunk.com and Ebay. I've had many people try to buy my original 1 chambers I have on my 65.

 

[TerryS1980]

My Flowmasters didnt have the tingy sounds, but the Magnaflows do.

 

[Xan]

I like the mention of bassani and borla on here. but really the only way to get the max out of thier products is to put on thier whole systems. mainly because well atleast with bassani products they make sure everything is equal length and have been on dyno proven on 1000+hp engines with out signs of restrictions. They are top of the line products no doubt they will make you more power then the other brands yeah. But holy crap are they exspensive. If you got the money for this stuff then great for you i woln't say a bad word about it you just want the best

 

[CDW6212R]

Click on a couple of the sound clips here on a page for Edelbrock SDT mufflers. I like the smoother sound of the 2005 Mustang GT link.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_756261_-1

 

[Mutineer]

I've researched this "backpressure" thing a little while ago and from what I came up with, less is more!

Here's the low-down on what my digging turned up: each exhaust valve is actuated by the camshaft which requires energy. The more pressure there is behind the valve, the harder it is to open.

This is the reason why top-fuel dragsters run just vertical tubes and nothing more. I think I also read somewhere that F1's (or was it NASCAR) run very little backpressure.

I agree.

But take into account that the stock valvetrain is designed to run the amount of backpressure the engine originally was designed to run...

I.E. spring rates, cam lobes, valve size, header length, pipe size, etc...

and loosing backpressure can cause issues on motors designed to run backpressure.

Dragsters and NASCAR or F-1 engine builders take this into account when they design their cars/engines and build them accordingly.

If you get 1200 RWHP and want to run 0 BP, get the free-flow tubed heads used in drag racing.

If you want to run low BP for a boost in Horsepower, build a set of heads to handle it correctly.

If youre looking for a little bit of performance from your stock engine, stick a catback system on it and leave the Cats and manifolds alone. This can make a noticeable difference without risking valvetrain damage



Daniel

 

[Xan]

I agree.

But take into account that the stock valvetrain is designed to run the amount of backpressure the engine originally was designed to run...

I.E. spring rates, cam lobes, valve size, header length, pipe size, etc...

and loosing backpressure can cause issues on motors designed to run backpressure.

Dragsters and NASCAR or F-1 engine builders take this into account when they design their cars/engines...

If you want to run 0 BP, get the free-flow tubed heads used in drag racing.
If you want to run low BP, build a set of heads to handle it correctly.
If youre looking for a little bit of performance from your stock engine, stick a catback system on it and leave the Cats and manifolds alone.

Daniel

Dun Dun Dun what we have all been trying to say

 

[CDW6212R]

That is 99% about the tune of the PCM. The stock OBDII PCM is easily able to compensate for any exhaust changes, those are trivial for this generation of PCM. An 86-95 Mustang on the other hand would run much differently if you stuck an oversized exhaust on it, which thousands did. Those were/are the Mustangs that you see hunting at idle, dieing, or otherwise running poorly. An exhaust is a minor change, slap on an 8000rpm intake like a Victor Junior 5.0 and you might give the OBDII PCM a challenge.

Jon has a great 347 engine combination, and many stock external components, yet the PCM is doing a fine job of controlling it. If you dropped that longblock into an 88-95 Mustang, yuck that would suck. You'd be buying an MSD ignition box and FMU just to keep it running, and it would run rich at idle etc.

The programming is the key, major changes can cause big problems for older PCM's, our Explorers can handle most things easily.

 

[Mutineer]

Good deal, so now back to the subject:

I ran a single in-dual out V force on my 360 Dodge Ram, and it worked GREAT!

Ran dual flowmasters on my Blazer, LOVED IT

Ran stock exhaust on all my V-6's, Never thought I needed anything else

Ran Flowmasters on my 5.0 Loved the performance, hated the sound

Im putting TM headers on my 5,0 along with stock primary cats and true dual Magnaflow, just for a change.

It all depend on what YOU want out of it, and your vehicles specs.

Daniel

 

[Mutineer]

That is 99% about the tune of the PCM. The stock OBDII PCM is easily able to compensate for any exhaust changes, those are trivial for this generation of PCM. An 86-95 Mustang on the other hand would run much differently if you stuck an oversized exhaust on it, which thousands did. Those were/are the Mustangs that you see hunting at idle, dieing, or otherwise running poorly. An exhaust is a minor change, slap on an 8000rpm intake like a Victor Junior 5.0 and you might give the OBDII PCM a challenge.

Jon has a great 347 engine combination, and many stock external components, yet the PCM is doing a fine job of controlling it. If you dropped that longblock into an 88-95 Mustang, yuck that would suck. You'd be buying an MSD ignition box and FMU just to keep it running, and it would run rich at idle etc.

The programming is the key, major changes can cause big problems for older PCM's, our Explorers can handle most things easily.

right, I was playing HELL with my 87 Fox Body because I tried to overbuild the intake/exhaust, and learned all of this first hand.

Daniel

 

[Xan]

That is 99% about the tune of the PCM. The stock OBDII PCM is easily able to compensate for any exhaust changes, those are trivial for this generation of PCM. An 86-95 Mustang on the other hand would run much differently if you stuck an oversized exhaust on it, which thousands did. Those were/are the Mustangs that you see hunting at idle, dieing, or otherwise running poorly. An exhaust is a minor change, slap on an 8000rpm intake like a Victor Junior 5.0 and you might give the OBDII PCM a challenge.

Jon has a great 347 engine combination, and many stock external components, yet the PCM is doing a fine job of controlling it. If you dropped that longblock into an 88-95 Mustang, yuck that would suck. You'd be buying an MSD ignition box and FMU just to keep it running, and it would run rich at idle etc.

The programming is the key, major changes can cause big problems for older PCM's, our Explorers can handle most things easily.

uhh not exactly you gotta match what you do to engine to balance it. if you grab a stock explorer and run straight pipes and throw the rest away i'm not gonna guess you're gonna be able to program that in. and hes on his 4th exhaust system btw