Is this normal in 4X4?

[YW84U]

With a recent snowfall, I decided to try out the 4 High in my 91XLT. I have noticed two things that are causing concern:

1. When in 4 high, the front drivetrain gives off a sound reminiscent of something dragging on a rotor; it is not the rotors or brakes, however, it matches the changes in speeds. The only description I can provide is that it's like a 'shoop shoop shoop' caused by frictionNot terribly loud, but almost like a vibration or noise in the transfer case or front diff that sounds as though it shouldn't be there... (wish I could embed an mp3 - to 'splain it better...). Should it be way noisier than the back end??

2. The big question. When engaged in either 4 high or low, when the wheels are at or approach full lock to the left, the left front tire 'chatters' along the ground. It will complete near one full revolution, then lock up momentairly, then come free and continue to repeat the cycle through the turn. When it does this, it tends to cause the right front to plow across the snow a little, and really affects the track of the turn.
When turned to the right, the right wheel does not appear to lock up and skip along like the left, although it still feels through the column as though it does bind a little. I did try this when I put manuals on a few months ago, and found that on drier surfaces (gravel), it makes it near impossible to turn at all without the feeling that something metal is gonna break!

Any ideas? Is this normal for us X owners? The sounds I can live with as long as it's not a sign of some imminent failure, but the binding of the wheels on the turns surely cannot be normal.

Any assistance in this regard is greatly appreciated!

 

[JDraper]

On your first question, it sounds like you have something rubbing on the front driveshaft or front axle shafts. On your second question, what you described is totally normal. When you turn a corner, the outer wheel wants to turn faster than the inner wheel, since you have the 4wd engaged, they can't, so one wants to hop or skip.

 

[YW84U]

Thanks for the info! I'm crawling underneath in the next few days to put in the 3" PA BL, and while I'm there, I'll look at the shafts. Is there any maintenance I should do to them while I'm there anyways? I recall something about checking u-joints and lubing something mentioned from some other posts.
As well, is there a certain amount of steering input you can safely turn while 4wd in engaged? I don't wish to unneccesarily stress the components, and would like to figure out sort of the 'max' turning radius...

 

[93Ranger]

JDraper: but the front Diff is an open diff, not a locker. so the wheel shouldnt do that. it should spin fine.

what it might be is the hub. do you often engage 4x4 hi? what about 4x4 lo? try and engage 4x4 lo AT LEAST once or twice every other week, that will help the components not seize up.

check your hub and make sure everything works smoothly. if you have a front locker, then thats normal. if you have the money, and no locker, or a locker that is sub-par, get an ARB. probabally about a grand installed on a D44.


Check out your hubs, cuz if it only happens on one wheel like you said, then its probabally the hub.

you should be able to turn the wheels lock to lock if your front end has an open diff. make sure the tires dont rub ok? that might be a culprit. it could be hitting a suspension component if your tires are over sized. just a thought, dont know if it is reasonable or not.

 

[01EB5.0]

Umm...I believe Jdraper is right. the front wheel will hop when turned like that. thats why they say not to use 4X4 low or high on dry hard pavement because it will cause tremendous strain on the front axle. Open diff or closed diff it doesn;t matter. My truck has a stock open front diff and in 4WD LOW it binds and pops just like his 91 is. it is normal, but you should try to avoid it.

 

[93Ranger]

but then why doesnt the back end bind and pop? the outside wheel would be trying to spin faster than the inside in the back too.

your tying 2 granny knots with a loop and it aint happenin'

he said it was only his left wheel, so that makes me think hubs, not 4x4.

and if it is 4x4, then why is it that the wheel doesnt pop or bind in Jeep's or Hummers? or they havent in any that i have driven.

 

[01EB5.0]

Originally posted by 93Ranger
but then why doesnt the back end bind and pop? the outside wheel would be trying to spin faster than the inside in the back too.

your tying 2 granny knots with a loop and it aint happenin'

he said it was only his left wheel, so that makes me think hubs, not 4x4.

and if it is 4x4, then why is it that the wheel doesnt pop or bind in Jeep's or Hummers? or they havent in any that i have driven.

Well, personally I just listed what I gathered from past experiance and everything I read. it's his left wheel cause it's the inner one and would be moving less then the outer one. All I know for sure is my 95 XLT binds just like he is saying when I have it locked in 4WD LOW and turn on hard pavement. also I have no hubs so that sort of rules with out at least with me. it's normal for binding to happen on hard pavement.

 

[TSTONE]

i have a 93 since new and if you invoke 4wd h or l and pull the wheel toward lock it will jump <^<^<^<->^>^>^>, it's normal, as for noise if your hearing mechanical(lubed) noises thats normal, if your hearing (zzzzzzzz) or (zzzzzzzz - bang) you need to check one of the threads about autohubs
todd

 

[YW84U]

I spoke at length with a colleague of mine from work, who advised that any time you go lock to lock, it will cause the fronts to bind and pop. When one hub is taking the brunt of the torque, it will snap and pop - too much on an autohub will demolish it after time. The Warns are more forgiving for abuse, and he figures the weakest point in my front driveline will now be the front u-joints - he strongly encouraged me to check them out. He assessed this as being perfectly normal, and advised against doing it on dry pavement.
I'll be underneath this week, and have a long, suspicious look at the joints as the source of the driveline noise.

 

[leenjen]

when i first got my explorer, i thought something was wrong because it did that too. but then i found out that it's just a normal 4X4 thing. i didnt even know dry pavement was bad for it at the time.

 

[yob_yeknom]

I'm not sure the first noise is a problem either. I have a sound similar to what you are describing when locked into 4wd also. It sounds normal to me.

 

[93Ranger]

Originally posted by 95XLT

Well, personally I just listed what I gathered from past experiance and everything I read. it's his left wheel cause it's the inner one and would be moving less then the outer one. All I know for sure is my 95 XLT binds just like he is saying when I have it locked in 4WD LOW and turn on hard pavement. also I have no hubs so that sort of rules with out at least with me. it's normal for binding to happen on hard pavement.

so you only make left hand turns?

see what im saying? i think its gotta be hubs or else your back end would pop and bind all the time.

"im not as think as you dumb i am"

 

[01EB5.0]

Originally posted by 93Ranger


so you only make left hand turns?

see what im saying? i think its gotta be hubs or else your back end would pop and bind all the time.

"im not as think as you dumb i am"

I'm not saying i only make left hand turns...I ment if you make a left turn the inner wheel will jump, just like if you make a sharp right the other wheel will jump. Now if someone could help me out here as to why the rear end doesn't jump and the front does? i know that the jumping is normal. My truck has no hubs and it still does it so it's not a hubs problem. My truck is also all computerized and I believe if there was a fault in the front axle, the indicator lights would warn me of it. i mean they come on for every other small issue. i don;t know th einner workins of the front axle, but i know the rear is able to turn without hopping unless you have a locker.
SOmeone please shed some light on this. i am trying to explain my point, but am failing....

 

[93Ranger]

hmm, first of all, i dont quite see how you dont have hub's up front, BUT thats not a real issue.

maybe the back end doesnt hop because it doesnt lead the car into a turn, it follow's. get me?

the front, once turned, has more than just a foward force on it. now it will have a fowards and sideways force applied to it.

the back end just has a foward force and just happens to pivot around one wheel. i bet that if you took one of the 4 wheel steering Denali's and cranked the wheel to lock, and put it in 4hi or lo, the back end would pop (at speed).

to get enough force to get the back end to pop on a regular vehicle, it would probabally flip before that would happen. dunno, just my .002

 

[01EB5.0]

yeah the 95 and newer has no hubs. the front CV joints are always spinning. the disconnect happens in the front axle and in the t-case. when I put the truck in auto the front driveshaft spins up, but it does not put any power to the front until it senses slippage. then clutches up front engauge, thus putting power up front (for a very short description of the system) all 1995 and newer explorers do not have hubs as your used to. the 98 and newer rangers have the same setup i have.

 

[Toyofast]

I just have to jump onto this message... first off the noise that you hear is most likely the sound of un-lubed drivetrain like what has already been said. Last is the chattering sound or vib you're fealing is commin in TTB suspensions and some other solid axles...remember that U-joints don't turn all that smooth, pick up an axle shaft/u-joint/stub combo and try to rotate it with it at an angle...doesn't roll/spin/move very smoothly because the joint has to jump over it's self in a way, now a birfield(Toy, Sami) for instance spins very smooth at angles because of it's design, many balls built into it which allow much more angle with smooth spinning motion.

 

[leenjen]

Originally posted by 93Ranger
the back end just has a foward force and just happens to pivot around one wheel. i bet that if you took one of the 4 wheel steering Denali's and cranked the wheel to lock, and put it in 4hi or lo, the back end would pop (at speed).

i think they are AWD. but if they were 4X4, then they probably would pop like that.

 

[TPLYNCH]

For 95XLT and 93Ranger..... When in 4HI/LO, the front and rear drivetrains are spinning at the same rate, and an open rear compensates for different wheel speeds in turns... BUT, when the front end is locked in, and you turn, the distance the front wheels travel in a turn is so much different left to right and front to back that the wheels bind and hop. The difference in a turn at the rear is not great enough to cause rear wheel binding. It doesn't matter that the front is an open diff. Without a viscous clutch setup in the T/F case to compensate driveshaft speed front to back to account for the turn radius difference (See 5.0 AWD setup), their will be binding in 4x4. Hope this makes sense..........

 

[01EB5.0]

Thanks tplynch...I knew i wasn;t crazy....