Major Engine Problem, PLease Help

[97greenmonster]

Ok, so i hear what i and others believe to be my timming chain tensioner and guide going out on my SOHC V6. Now i took it to a local ford dealership and had them look at it, and they want to pull the motor, inspect it and if it need tensioners, replace them at a 2300 dollar charge. Now if the chains were fine, they wanted to replace the motor at a 5000 dollar charge. When i spoke with them on the phone, he said his tech guy heard noises from the front, rear and bottom of the motor. He says the noise from the bottom shows something with the crank case, but the motor runs great besides the rattle, doesnt burn a drop of oil still has power, even tho its not as impressive as when i got it, i suspect the timming is to blame, and it doesnt knock or grind. Anyone else know what to do, i want to take it to a local guy and have him do the front and rear for like 1300 or so i think. Let me know! If not, ill find a nick 4.6!! ha Thanks for all your help!
Clay

 

[pumpkin]

I would take it to the local guy and maybe another shop to get a second & third opinion. Can you hear these rattles too? How many miles on it?

Noise from the bottom is a very serious problem. Nothing is great about an engine running with multiple rattles. Something will eventually blowup. I had one in a Toyota one time that sounded like it was from the bottom. It still ran but it got louder and louder over time. I dropped the oil pan and it was a failed connecting rod bearing that did quite a bit of damage to the crank.
Haven't read about any Explorers with spun bearings but anything is possible. Too bad we can't drop the pan without jacking the motor.

 

[CDW6212R]

If you can put off any work for a short time, research and price used engines. Compare what the cost will be for repairs to your engine, against another with lower mileage. Any other 4.0 SOHC would need the same engine work, but the labor costs would be the same for removal/replacing of each engine.

So make a decision about your current mileage, a different used engine, and the labor/down time. Good luck,

 

[Styx]

When dose the engine make the noise???

If it is just at start up it could br the chain tentioner... When I bought my 99 it was traded in because it was noisey at start up and the PO thought as you it needed alot of major engine work. So it sat on our lot for like 10 months waiting to go to the auction... When my 91 blew the tranny for the 3ed time I figured it was time to move up...
So I got my 99 for cheep and did the front tentioner kit only and it is great...
Runs strong quiet and it dosent have that pos a4ld in it ...lol...
The tentioner comes with a new style hydrolic tentioner and a oil passage restrictor along with a couple other things and is under $100 from ford... You will need a upper and lower intake gasket set as well... If you are mechanicly inclined itt is doable... I would say a firm 6 on a 1 to 10 scale just need to take your time...
Cheers...

 

[97greenmonster]

Its at idle and was at above 2800 RPM, but since i put the new exaust on it (forgot to put the flange pipe gasket on it) its hard to hear, but its bad at idle with the A/C on, but doable w/o it. Im gonna ask a local guy, it only has 138000 on it, which is nothing for these motors, but the tensioner is shot. I dont think there is any thing else wrong with it. there is never anything in the oil when i drain it every 3000 or so miles, and there is no grinding so i dought anything is wrong with the crankshaft or rod berrings. its really bad at start up and then alms down till i turn on the a/c, so when its in gear and the a/c is on, it sounds like a diesel, so i put it in neutral at stop lights as to not embarrass myself!! I would love a new motor, but i really dont have the money to buy one, and there are no SOHC motors at any junk yards around here, they are all 97 and newer, but ive only seen 1 snd gen, and it was a torched 5.0!

 

[Space Truckin']

97greenmonster,

When the tensioners or guides break, they can send some metal and a lot of plastic throughout the front and bottom of the engine. This could account for the noise in areas that are not damaged yet. However, all that plastic will quickly plug the oil pick-up, and an oil-starved engine is a dead engine.

If the engine was running well before all this happened and didn’t bend any valves, you should be able to replace the chains, guides, and tensioners and be on your way down the road. However, this will get you about half way to the cost of a rebuilt engine. So, the question is simple. Do you want to put that much money into an engine with over 100K miles on it, or can you afford a rebuilt engine instead?

For a short time, I worked for Greenleaf, the auto recycling (salvage yard) division of Ford. I quit because I am not a professional liar. An inside view of the salvage industry was all it took. I don’t trust salvage engines and would not consider this option.

I am in the middle of replacing the chains, guides, and tensioners on mine. Only time and mileage will tell if I made the right decision.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, it's all a gamble, against the big new engine cost. That is why I suggested weighing the costs of repair of that engine, versus a different used engine and the same repair work.

You don't want to start with an engine which may have damage caused by the valvetrain issue. If yours with 138k was not hurt, you can likely gain an easy 75-100k with the repairs. Call around, I know you will not find an engine in the first ten minutes, or day, or likely a week or month. But they are out there, don't pay more than say $750 for a SOHC 4.0 engine. Over that and they are stealing from you.

Don't listen to or care about any guarantee they push, you only want to know what the condition is now, the mileage and how it ran. You want one that doesn't have the noises that yours has. If you do find one, stick it on a stand , buy the tool kit, and swap out the $200 worth of valvetrain parts, and bolt it in. Then just take good care of it. Regards,

 

[Space Truckin']

...don't pay more than say $750 for a SOHC 4.0 engine. Over that and they are stealing from you.

True, but even that might be too much money. Remember that a similar age engine will have similar miles. Consider how you would feel now if you had just paid $750 for the engine you already have. It was running fine too, right up until it broke.

Don't listen to or care about any guarantee they push...

Very true, the only meaningful warranty is that it runs correctly when you install it. Anything more is not worth the extra money.

...you only want to know what the condition is now, the mileage and how it ran.

This is where the professional lying starts… :fire:

 

[CDW6212R]

All true, and it is more common now to be able to hear an engine run at a yard. The key is what type of salvage yards you can find. I prefer those where I can go out and get my own parts, they are much much cheaper. But we have a place(Knox Auto Parts) which I consider as useless. They sell most parts of all vehicles to buyers who have prearranged deals. They allow no one on the lot, and their basic prices are right at 50% of new retail prices. They are nuts, but there are businesses who like their professional system, they can provide the parts needed for rebuilt vehicles easily.

 

[Styx]

Yes by the sounds of your concerns it is worn chain guides
If it has been dooing it for a while then you will need at the very least to replace the bearings (safety precaution) as, like has been mentioned, the oil pickup may have been partially blocked...
As for used engines yoou never really know what your going to get, and in alot of cases neither do they...Who knowes the maintance history of a used engine ???
I would agree with Don on dont pay more than $750 and even say not more than like $600...
If you go used pull the frint cover and oil pan BEFORE installing it and check the condition of the guides and oil pickup...
I would be inclined to rebuild what you have... The parts for the guides with chaines and new style tentioner are less than $250 up here and bearings are prolly like $100 add gasket set for $150... Then your time???
Good luck...

 

[CDW6212R]

It usually should come down to how the original engine is/was running. If it still believed to be sound(other than the timing chain etc.), then the answer is to fix it. If it's an unknown like a new purchase, then a search for a better starting point is wise. The later SOHC engines are starting to turn up now, if a 2002 or newer model could be found in apparent fine shape, that would be nice to start with.

 

[pumpkin]

I don’t trust salvage engines and would not consider this option.

As for used engines yoou never really know what your going to get, and in alot of cases neither do they...Who knowes the maintance history of a used engine ???

Hey, I represent those remarks! My car in post #2 got a used engine in March 2000 w/ 127k mi and it now has 209k. If the car is in good condition, then this is the cheap way to go about it. The engine cost me $450.

When people buy a used vehicle from a dealer that somebody else traded in, you don't know the history of the entire car, so what's the difference?

 

[Space Truckin']

When people buy a used vehicle from a dealer that somebody else traded in, you don't know the history of the entire car, so what's the difference?

This is a very valid observation. The key is to have a plan and pay the right price. I like to buy vehicles that are about 3 years old. It is still covered by the original warranty if there is a problem and someone else takes the big depreciation hit. Then I drive them forever; I become their history. I still have the ’85 Mustang GT (5 speed & T-tops) that I bought in ’88. Hardly a week goes by without someone trying to buy it from me. Recently I had to rebuild the rearend and then the transmission. With over 200K miles on it, the engine is still strong enough to break gears inside both of them.


My ’98 Explorer was a different story. I knew it had a slight timing chain rattle when I bought it about 18 months ago. I wasn’t worried because the price I paid was so far below market value. I could install a Jasper rebuilt motor (with a transferable warranty) and still easily sell it for more then I have invested.

I have done this with other vehicles too. I also pay cash and haven’t had a car payment in over ten years. That makes it easier to pay for the occasional repair.

The idea is the same for 97greenmonster’s repair. Have a plan and pay the right price!

 

[97greenmonster]

It has only been rattling for about 7 months. ive heard some SOHC at start up, idle and throttle that sound like mine at idle with the a/c on high. once i put my foot on the gas, it doesnt make the noise. i think it is safe to invest the money to repair the tensioners. when i have the guy pull it, i could ask him to look at the oil pickups. but judging from what ive read and heard off of other explorers, mine is not as servier, ihave a good ear, and i know when something isnt right, and i cought it early, but sadly, i didnt act fast enough, but i thnk she is safe, i try not to exceed 2500, so wear is minimal! thanks for the help you guys! i just honestly dont know where im gonna get a used SOHC out here in omaha without getting it shipped. and knowing me, if i did get it, id replace the tensioner, along with other stuff like, cams, heads and what ever else i can cram into it before it goes in!

 

[ARTURPOLAND]

rear tensioner

I had the same story. I changed the rear chain tensioner ( beside the spark plugs on the passenger side - you can reach it through the weel well). It cost 50 dollars or so but the engine stop rattling after this.

 

[97greenmonster]

Was it a ***** to do and all? i thought you had to remove the engine, or drop the tranny atleast!

 

[CDW6212R]

It sounds like you feel comfortable with the engine(not valvetrain). For that case, hunt for the many other threads about cam cassettes and tensioners. There are two cam chain tensioners, a front cassette, and a rear cassette which you should want to change.
The rear cassette cannot be serviced without removing the engine or transmission. It is between the two.

Please read the threads, there are countless words and pictures which you need to see, they are there. Regards,

 

[ARTURPOLAND]

again

there are two different stories: chain and cassete and chain tensioner. In order to change rear cassete and chain you have to lift the engine or remove. In order to change the tensioner (little hydraulic part) you really have to remove the wheel, the inner fender shield (I don't know how they call it in english). the tensioner is screwed into the engine head (looks like normal screw). All you need is a wrench with a suitable extension.

 

[CDW6212R]

There are certain parts in the SOHC which are susceptible to failing early, I mentioned them all above. Don't change them one at a time and hope to find your one weak link. Attempt to replace all of them, or all except the rear chain cassette. There is no sense in pulling apart the top or front and leaving some of those parts unchanged in there. The recalls are over, and Ford only did what they were forced to do. They don't really care how little you do now, they will benefit from all future failures, so they will advocate your doing as little as possible. Rely on the opinions of those not benefiting from your engine problems. Do as much as you can afford to do. The rear cassette of the pre 2002 models is still a big unknown, most people have not had problems with it, and a few have. I am hoping to get a few more years out of my engine/trans before doing anything else. Good luck,

 

[97greenmonster]

I had my ball joints done on tuesday, and i asked the guy if he was able to do the tensioners and what not, and the job was 8.8 hours + 1.1 hours if it has the AC. then he went on saying that he has never heard of and explorer, well, exploding and blowing a motor, and he has never head of an explorer juming time. so idk. what i think im going to do is find a good motor out of a junked explorer and "rebuild" it. tear it apard and look at the condition its in and go from there. i was also thinking about getting a junked 5.0 and putting some money in it, then droping it in. would a 5.0 out of and f150 drop in because i KNOW i can get one of those!! thanks. im just playing with a bunch of options tho.