Misfire - How does computer know?? | Ford Explorer Forums

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Misfire - How does computer know??

Jim Jermain

Active Member
Joined
February 20, 2006
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City, State
Madison, WI
Year, Model & Trim Level
00 XLS
I am getting an occasional misfire on cylinder number three. I have two quick questions. Is the #3 cylinder closest to the firewall on the passenger side? Second does anyone know how the computer detects a misfire on a specific cylinder? I am trying to find out if my misfire is actually being caused by something or is it a sensor error.

I really appreciate any help.

Jim
 



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detecting misfire

If you have a V6 then yes, the cylinder on the passenger (right) side next to the firewall is #3. It is my opinion that misfire is caused by ignition, fuel injection and compression in that order from most to least likely cause. The below is from the 2000 Model Year OBD System Operation Summary.


Generic Misfire Algorithm Processing
The acceleration that a piston undergoes during a normal firing event is directly related to the amount of torque that cylinder produces. The calculated piston/cylinder acceleration value(s) are compared to a misfire threshold that is continuously adjusted based on inferred engine torque. Deviant accelerations exceeding the threshold are conditionally labeled as misfires.
The calculated deviant acceleration value(s) are also evaluated for noise. Normally, misfire results in a nonsymmetrical loss of cylinder acceleration. Mechanical noise, such as rough roads or high rpm/light load conditions, will produce symmetrical acceleration variations. Cylinder events that indicate excessive deviant accelerations of this type are considered noise. Noise-free deviant acceleration exceeding a given threshold is labeled a misfire.
The number of misfires are counted over a continuous 200 revolution and 1000 revolution period. (The revolution counters are not reset if the misfire monitor is temporarily disabled such as for negative torque mode, etc.) At the end of the evaluation period, the total misfire rate and the misfire rate for each individual cylinder is computed. The misfire rate evaluated every 200 revolution period (Type A) and compared to a threshold value obtained from an engine speed/load table. This misfire threshold is designed to prevent damage to the catalyst due to sustained excessive temperature (1600°F for Pt/Pd/Rh conventional washcoat, 1650°F for Pt/Pd/Rh advanced washcoat and 1800°F for Pd-only high tech washcoat). If the misfire threshold is exceeded and the catalyst temperature model
calculates a catalyst mid-bed temperature that exceeds the catalyst damage threshold, the MIL blinks at a 1 Hz rate while the misfire is present. If the threshold is again exceeded on a subsequent driving cycle, the MIL is illuminated.
If a single cylinder is determined to be consistently misfiring in excess of the catalyst damage criteria, the fuel injector to that cylinder may be shut off for 30 seconds to prevent catalyst damage. Up to two cylinders may be disabled at the same time. This fuel shut-off feature is used on many 8-cylinder engine and some 6-cylinder engines. It is never used on a 4-cylinder engine. After 30 seconds, the injector is re-enabled. If misfire on that cylinder is again detected after 200 revs (about 5 to 10 seconds), the fuel injector will be shut off again and the process will repeat until the misfire is no longer present. Note that ignition coil primary circuit failures (see CCM section) will trigger the same type of fuel injector disablement.
Next, the misfire rate is evaluated every 1000 rev period and compared to a single (Type B) threshold value to indicate an emission-threshold malfunction, which can be either a single 1000 rev exceedence from startup or four subsequent 1000 rev exceedences on a drive cycle after start-up.
Profile Correction
"Profile correction" software is used to "learn" and correct for mechanical inaccuracies in the crankshaft position wheel tooth spacing. Since the sum of all the angles between crankshaft teeth must equal 360o, a correction factor can be calculated for each misfire sample interval that makes all the angles between individual teeth equal. To prevent any fueling or combustion differences from affecting the correction factors, learning is done during decelfuel cutout.
The correction factors are learned during closed-throttle, non-braking, de-fueled decelerations in the 60 to 40 mph range after exceeding 60 mph (likely to correspond to a freeway exit condition). In order to minimize the learning time for the correction factors, a more aggressive decel-fuel cutout strategy may be employed when the conditions for learning are present. The corrections are typically learned in a single deceleration, but can be learned during up to 3 such decelerations. The "mature" correction factors are the average of a selected number of samples. A low data rate misfire system will typically learn 4 such corrections in this interval, while a high data rate system will learn 36 or 40 in the same interval (data is actually processed in the AICE chip). In order to assure the accuracy of these corrections, a tolerance is placed on the incoming values such that an individual correction factor must be repeatable within the tolerance during learning This is to reduce the possibility of learning corrections on rough road conditions which could limit misfire detection capability.
Since inaccuracies in the wheel tooth spacing can produce a false indication of misfire, the misfire monitor is not active until the corrections are learned. In the event of battery disconnection or loss of Keep Alive Memory the correction factors are lost and must be relearned.
 






Generic Misfire Algorithm Processing......

My simple mind finds a few things in the above description to be troubling:

1. PCM can easily measure, accurately, time intervals between toothed wheel segments turning with the crankshaft, and interpret lengthened time intervals as being possibly caused by loss of torque produced. Trouble is, several other factors beside cylinder misfire can cause the same thing.

2. The results are very subjective.

3. More valuable data can be obtained from O2 sensing done adjacent to the suspect cylinder's exhaust valve(s).

4. Can the description be re-worded in simpler terms which us "undocumented experts" can understand? imp
 






misfire detection interpretation

My brief interpretation of the detection explanation is:

The PCM is constantly monitoring the output of the crankshaft position sensor to determine the crankshaft acceleration/deceleration (power pulse amplitude) during very short intervals of time. The crankshaft power pulse acceleration/deceleration varies according to when a particular cylinder fires. The acceleration would be greatest recently after a piston passes TDC and the associated spark plug has fired. The PCM computes a power pulse amplitude for each piston/cylinder and compares it to a certain value. When the power pulse amplitude is less than the certain value a misfire is declared. There are mathematical ways that the PCM uses to remove inaccuracies in the position of the teeth on the balancer. These correction factors are stored in the PCM keep alive memory (KAM).

I agree that monitoring the O2 level at each exhaust port would be helpful but it would also be more expensive than just a computer program using data from devices required for other purposes.

My ordering of the causes for misfire is based on my experience and perceived reliability of the various components contributing to a low power pulse amplitude. Spark plugs fail more often than fuel injectors. Fuel injectors fail more often than head gaskets. However, ignition includes plugs, wires, coil pack, crankshaft positon sensor, etc. Fuel injection includes injectors, camshaft position sensor, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pump relay, etc. Compression includes head gasket, piston rings, valves, valve springs, valve adjusters, cracked head, camshaft, timing chain, etc.
 






Guys thanks for all the great information. Based on your explanation, this certainly makes sense. I've been fighting a rough idle condition at cold start for 18 months. Here is a list of the things I've tried.

1. New factor plug wires (dealer installed)
2. Fuel Injector cleaned (dealer performed)
3. Plugs replaced (number 3 cylinder twice)
4. Switched number 3 plug wire with number 2 cylinder
5. Replaced upper intake gasket
6. Replaced fuel rail gasket
7. Replaced lower intake gasket
8. Replaced number 3 fuel injector
9. Tested fuel pressure (maintained pressure for several hours)
10. Replaced fuel filter
11. Replaced IAC
12. Replaced Throttle Position Sensor
13. Replaced EGR solenoid
14. Pulled # 3 plug before start up and after cranking for plug wire removed to see if plug is wet from gas or antifreeze. (no real signs - however it looks like I am losing a small amount of coolant over several months)

The misfire is always with the number 3 cylinder. It usually trips the code when the cold start idle is worse. Idle is fine after about 30 seconds. Idle is always good on hot starts.

Any advice on what to try next??? Needless to same I am running out of things to try / change.

Jim
 






For a consistent misfire like that...

I had a set of injectors that were in need of more than just cleaning through chemical processes... I had one injector that would not spray properly when cold for 10-20 secs...Then it would start to spray fuel and run enough to even out the power pulses...

But I fixed that problem by removing the injector set and having them remanufactured and flow matched... I also had multiple injectors so I sent the set from the engine and 9 others to have them matched and rebuilt...

I got back a set that flowed within 1cc of each other and that pesky cold misfire was gone... I also suspected the injectors were old and tired and after reinstalling them I could tell the engine smoothness was remarkable...

Maybe you need to either get the old ones rebuilt or replace them with new ones...Mine had 169k on them and I figure that was plenty of work on those units...

Oh one other thing; I see the fuel pressure was tested...Do you know what the pressure is while the engine is running? I have also seen where the pressure at idle will drop when a load is placed on the engine... So much so that the pressure will drop to subpar levels and cause driveability issues...

Your trucks fuel pressure spec is 65+/- 8 psi...
 






Yes, cleaning injectors seldom actually means removing them and actually cleaning them. At that time you should always have them flow matched. This is all done on an injector bench. Most dealerships don't even own one. You must go to someone that specializes in this. As described above, OBD II calculates most measurements using only a handful of actually direct sensors. As for the problem that persists, I would check the coil pack. If this seams reliable, I would move on to the injectors. Most of the rest of the ignition seems to have already been addressed.
 






I have been experiencing the exact same issue. My motor (4.0 OHV) has had 1 plug that foul's every 2 weeks to a month.
The plug has a almost light brownrust soft corrosion on the threads. Really odd.
Since I was sucking coolant, I thought this might be the issue. I did lower intake gasket and anothr plug foweled, this time in a different cylinder. Again...odd, until I thought about it.
I removed the injectors so that the machine shop could resurface my lower intake. I didn't mark the injectors, so who knows what injector went back where.
I think I have a bad injector. I bought a set ($180.00 usd) but they turned out to be the wrong ones (Too short).
Im waiting on new injectors, so I can't tell you if this is going to fix my issue yet. More to come on my experience. Hope it helps you troubleshoot.
 






......Im waiting on new injectors, so I can't tell you if this is going to fix my issue yet. More to come on my experience. Hope it helps you troubleshoot.

I have read it advised to replace injectors every 50,000 miles! (??@@#). I have also seen engines with 200K on their injectors still working fine.

So, it seems wasteful to simply replace for no reason, but in the case of troublesome problems not easily solved, then it is justified. imp
 






Compression check

Jim, I suggest that you perform a cold engine compression check on #3 and a couple other cylinders for comparison. Then warm up the engine and repeat the compression check. Two good compression checks leaves either ignition or fuel injection as the source of your misfires.
 






Guys thanks for all the good advice. I did replace the number three injector, but it might be worth having all the injectors flow tested. I think my fuel pressure was right around the 65 lbs mark at all times. I'll also try the cold and hot compression test. That's a good idea as well. The coil pack is a good thoughts as well.

Thanks again for all the tips.

Jim
 






keep us up to date please Jim. Your issue does sound very similar to mine. I do hope the injectors solve my issue, as I really won't know what else to do. In my case, its strange the fouling plug issue moves to different cylinders after the lower intake gaskets are replaced. My motor has 230,000k on it, so im sure strange things are bound to start happening.
 






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