mounty motor swap update

[EVLSPL]

hello everyone,
Well I have finally came up with the engine/transmission decision for the mounty. It is going to be .............. LS1 with an a4 trans. A friend of mine is selling his out of his 2000 trans am ws6. The motor has a good amount of mods on it. The dyno sheet showed 472hp to the tires.
Motor, trans, wiring harness, ecu, exhaust, and fuel pump= $2500

sorry for the randomness of this post but, I am excited.

 

[GreenEyez]

I always had a soft spot for those ws6's at least that motor is going to a good home ahah

 

[zerodevil]

lol maybe i should take the ls1 out of my ws6 too...sad to see a bird with out a heart...he better be putting an LS7 in its place!!

 

[Dan Whitaker]

I just don't understand why people want to ruin a good FORD with GOVERNMENT MOTORS junk.

 

[hunter930]

I just don't understand why people want to ruin a good FORD with GOVERNMENT MOTORS junk.

agreed.

 

[EVLSPL]

Here we go... I was wondering how long it was going to take. That government junk as you call it is easily one of the best engines ever made. Show me another naturally aspirated engine that is as powerful, affordable, and reliable. As far as I am concerned, ford needs to grow a pair and put something decent under the hood from the start. Thanks for your input anyway though.

 

[EVLSPL]

lol maybe i should take the ls1 out of my ws6 too...sad to see a bird with out a heart...he better be putting an LS7 in its place!!

He is putting a bulletproof lq9 with twins back in its place.

 

[NHarris]

You sure its street/emissions legal to put an older engine in a newer car? I thought it had to be of the same year or newer?
Glad to hear you've got yourself an engine...

That government junk as you call it is easily one of the best engines ever made. Show me another naturally aspirated engine that is as powerful, affordable, and reliable. As far as I am concerned, ford needs to grow a pair and put something decent under the hood from the start.

Ford puts some nice engines under the hood; they are pretty damn reliable. For example those windsor engine, some of the best, and had some good power. Check out ford's newest engines they are powerful...
I still beleive the SOHC 4.0L needed more power. Although it was probably under-rated, like most engines. I would think the output was probably around 220HP.

My dad had a GM that caught fire. Last GM he ever owned....


And how many miles on the engine?

 

[CDW6212R]

I just don't understand why people want to ruin a good FORD with GOVERNMENT MOTORS junk.

agreed.

Ditto, but I do not zero in on the GM thing(I hate Government and socialist Obama). To me it's simply wrong to put any engine in another make, ever. If it was a good engine going into a crap make car like Hugo or Triumph or another pitiful car maker, fine. But never for any Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar etc. There are tons of great engines from any of those to use for their vehicles.

Here we go... I was wondering how long it was going to take. That government junk as you call it is easily one of the best engines ever made. Show me another naturally aspirated engine that is as powerful, affordable, and reliable. As far as I am concerned, ford needs to grow a pair and put something decent under the hood from the start. Thanks for your input anyway though.

As for Ford engines, poo poo on any GM LS anything. Those are all multi million dollar upgrades of the same pushrod engines from the 50's. Ford could have done the same thing, but they chose to develop more modern OHC engines. I don't like the way Ford has done it, making engines that are larger in size and make less power for the given CI.

Anyway, the pushrod Ford engines can be and are built to make more power than the LS engines. The LS engines have the starting advantage of aluminum blocks and titanium rods and other ridiculous expensive parts, which only belong in high end performance engines. Thus they cost so much new, like a Ford modular engine.

But anybody can spend the kind of money LS engines have in them, to build fully competitive engines. There are countless 302 strokers out on the streets and the track which make equal and better power to the LS# crap.

GM finally made some decent heads for the LS engines, stuff Ford made in 1969 starting with the Cleveland heads. Now the aftermarket is making lots of heads almost as good as the Cleveland's, and some which is better. There is no excuse for building a low performance Ford engine given what's available.


Please don't take my long winded post as a slam of you personally or this thread, or GM owners. I get along fine with GM guys, it's the condescending attitude which riles me up. I know my stuff is as good or better than theirs, but they aren't smart enough to recognize facts, in their face.

It's wrong to put a Chevy engine in a Ford, always. It's the same for putting a Ford in a Chevy, but I'd do that to spite the Chevy idiots.

The 302 is a bolt in for the 95-01 Mountaineer/Explorer, anyone can have a 450HP 302 based engine built to drop right in. The trick is custom exhaust work, and a good sized budget. Regards,

 

[EVLSPL]

thanks

 

[rocket 5979]

As for Ford engines, poo poo on any GM LS anything. Those are all multi million dollar upgrades of the same pushrod engines from the 50's. Ford could have done the same thing, but they chose to develop more modern OHC engines. I don't like the way Ford has done it, making engines that are larger in size and make less power for the given CI.

Anyway, the pushrod Ford engines can be and are built to make more power than the LS engines. The LS engines have the starting advantage of aluminum blocks and titanium rods and other ridiculous expensive parts, which only belong in high end performance engines. Thus they cost so much new, like a Ford modular engine.

But anybody can spend the kind of money LS engines have in them, to build fully competitive engines. There are countless 302 strokers out on the streets and the track which make equal and better power to the LS# crap.

GM finally made some decent heads for the LS engines, stuff Ford made in 1969 starting with the Cleveland heads. Now the aftermarket is making lots of heads almost as good as the Cleveland's, and some which is better. There is no excuse for building a low performance Ford engine given what's available.


Please don't take my long winded post as a slam of you personally or this thread, or GM owners. I get along fine with GM guys, it's the condescending attitude which riles me up. I know my stuff is as good or better than theirs, but they aren't smart enough to recognize facts, in their face.

It's wrong to put a Chevy engine in a Ford, always. It's the same for putting a Ford in a Chevy, but I'd do that to spite the Chevy idiots.

The 302 is a bolt in for the 95-01 Mountaineer/Explorer, anyone can have a 450HP 302 based engine built to drop right in. The trick is custom exhaust work, and a good sized budget. Regards,

Don this is where I will have to respectfully disagree with you. You know I love my Ford modular engines but the LSx series engines kick its ass in most ways. Of course both can be built to hold a few thousand hp with all the bells and whistles and tens of thousands of dollars so that result cancels each other out. So lets talk about the averages.

POWER MAKING POTENTIAL: But where the results do matter (stock, mildly modded, and wildly modded) the scale tips towards the GM LSx engines. First off, they almost always are making more power stock for stock than Ford modular engines. Yeah people will throw out a few exceptions like the Ford GT, GT500, and Terminator Cobras, but those are only 3 examples of something that even comes close to competing in stock form. Now add a few boltons. With boltons most GM LS1's are easily pushing 300+rwhp without breaking a sweat. It will take FULL boltons and a small amount of digging into the engine to net that from the Ford 2v mod motor (aka ported heads & cams). The 4v mod motor does better but still doesn't top out near as high. Now add a cam to the LS1 and you are in the low/middle 400rwhp range and VERY streetable whereas the modular topped out in the low 300rwhp range even with a hotter set of cams. Another for instance. The engine in my car is the L76, which is a member of the GM LSx family. In bone stock form these cars with just boltons, heads, cam have pushed over 500rwhp. That is no nitrous, no boost nothing...just N/A. My car made 500rwhp/570rwtq on only 8.5 psi boost on a mild tune with just a TT system and nothing else. If I added a turbocam I could have pushed past 600+rwhp on LESS boost than I was running. On my new combo I plan to hit 750-800rwhp in the G8 on only about 13-14psi boost through stock heads and intake manifold too. Meanwhile I have full race ported heads, blower cams, KB 2.2 blower, and yadda, yadda, yadda on the Explorer and with that combo will only top out in the low 600range on 20 psi boost. Some of that difference is accounted in the KB blower parasitic power draw compared to the TT's in the G8, but not THAT much.

Now you could start the whole cubes debate but lets take a look at that too. To get to even 302 cubes from a 281 you are spending around 4 grand for the shortblock. But guess what, for that same 4 grand I can take my 364 cubes and drop a 400+ cube engine into it.

Oh by the way, I also have gotten a best averaged MPG of 31mpg in my G8 with the stock 6.0 V8 and TT's. You aren't quite doing that in the Ford mod motor.

POWER HOLDING POTENTIAL: Most Ford modular engines will only hold about 450rwhp before grenading. The engine blocks themselves are really strong but not the internals. There are some exceptions like the 03-04 Cobras, GT500, Ford GT that hold until 650-750rwhp on average. Now lets take a look at the LSx stock bottom ends. The LS1 holds to 550-600rwhp before giving up the ghost, my engine has been pushed past 700rwhp in stock form without giving up the ghost, same for the LS2, and LS3 as well. On average most stock LSx bottom ends hold in the 600-750rwhp range.


I think people care more about the actual result rather than what generation of technology it took to get there. I love my mod motors and think only Ford should stay in Ford vehicles and GM in GM vehicles but some of you die-hard Ford fans need to wake up and smell the coffee one day. I know I finally did. My ending statement is who really cares what is "old" technology and what is "new" technology. Power is power no matter how you get there. If the "new" technology doesn't make better power then while it may technically be newer it probably isn't better.

 

[CDW6212R]

Robert, I love you for your mind, but you might read my comments once more. I did not compare the LS# engines to the Ford modular engines. I personally am very disappointed with Ford and all of their modular engines. They are not in the same league as any other OHC engines made by anybody else. A decent high performance OHC engine should be able to make 100hp per liter. Almost every top OHC engine made by others reaches that goal, in stock form. Ford for 2011 is finally in the mid 400hp range with the top 5.0 Mustang, they started under 300hp.

My comment was just two things. Don't put a non Ford engine in a Ford, and any 302 based engine can equal the LS# engines. Spend the same budget, I'll take the Ford stroker pushrod engine. Regards,

 

[rocket 5979]

Robert, I love you for your mind, but you might read my comments once more. I did not compare the LS# engines to the Ford modular engines. I personally am very disappointed with Ford and all of their modular engines. They are not in the same league as any other OHC engines made by anybody else. A decent high performance OHC engine should be able to make 100hp per liter. Almost every top OHC engine made by others reaches that goal, in stock form. Ford for 2011 is finally in the mid 400hp range with the top 5.0 Mustang, they started under 300hp.

My comment was just two things. Don't put a non Ford engine in a Ford, and any 302 based engine can equal the LS# engines. Spend the same budget, I'll take the Ford stroker pushrod engine. Regards,

Don I have worked on my fair share of Ford 302 Windsor engines and they come less close to comparing to the LSx engines than the modulars do IMO. Their engine blocks themselves will usually split in half at 450rwhp let alone the rotating assy inside. By the time you have built a Ford 302 based engine to support and make 600-700rwhp you are going to be into it for a pretty penny. Oh well, to each their own. Happy Holidays Don.

 

[Limited02]

Has anyone been following the new 5.0 Coyote motors? Pushing nearly 360-380 stock and getting 420's with tune, CAI, catback?

Saw a company that's pusing 800+ on a stock internalled turbo'd 5.0(coyote) with only 12lbs of boost I believe.

In other words, Ford has gotten their game together and I want that motor for my Ex!

 

[NHarris]

Any updates?

 

[shadowless127]

LSx, yum. LSx in a ford, Blah!!

Although given the form factor of the Ex/Mounty, and the ford alternatives, I do see the want to go LSx.

 

[RichCresci]

To me it's simply wrong to put any engine in another make, ever. If it was a good engine going into a crap make car like Hugo or Triumph or another pitiful car maker, fine. But never for any Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar etc. There are tons of great engines from any of those to use for their vehicles.

I dropped a 5.9 Cummins into a 77' Ford Highboy on 42's. That was pretty bad ass. And I also put a built and bored 350 into a 89 Wrangler on 38's. Which was also equally as bad ass. So I'm gonna have to disagree. Something about smoking 38" tires in a soft top Jeep in 2nd gear with the rumble of a Chevy small block just gets the blood flowing.

 

[CDW6212R]

Don I have worked on my fair share of Ford 302 Windsor engines and they come less close to comparing to the LSx engines than the modulars do IMO. Their engine blocks themselves will usually split in half at 450rwhp let alone the rotating assy inside. By the time you have built a Ford 302 based engine to support and make 600-700rwhp you are going to be into it for a pretty penny. Oh well, to each their own. Happy Holidays Don.

It sounds like you have worked on quite a few mild 302 based engines with less money in them than a stock LS# engine. That is not a fair comparison. If an LS# engine costs $5000 or more new, or $3000ish used plus new parts, than it's only fair to spend $4000-$6000, or more to equal the costs of an LS# engine.

My 347 cost around $4500, complete, fully dressed. It is worth 400hp just like it is, and a very mild boost will make it strong enough for most comparisons. But that's still less money than an LS# engine, plus the stock block limits, so be fair and also include a Dart block. Right there you have a block that can handle any power, so stop mentioning weak blocks. Never use a stock 302 block for serious power.

To compare a strong 302 based engine to a strong LS# engine, spend the same $6000 or so on each. I'll take the Ford engine, it's smaller and lighter and will beat the Chevy. Don't use junk heads or OTS cams, or small intakes. Get the good stuff, the big stuff, the custom cam and Dart block, and then spank the Chevy.

I'll keep my Ford engine in my Ford body, and beat the Chevy engine in whatever you stick it in. Regards,

 

[shadowless127]

I dropped a 5.9 Cummins into a 77' Ford Highboy on 42's. That was pretty bad ass. And I also put a built and bored 350 into a 89 Wrangler on 38's. Which was also equally as bad ass. So I'm gonna have to disagree. Something about smoking 38" tires in a soft top Jeep in 2nd gear with the rumble of a Chevy small block just gets the blood flowing.

A cummins swap is fine, because it's not a diferent make. Like a Duramax swap would be grounds for a beating lol.

A 350 into a wrangler of that era is fairly common, because technically they weren't mopar yet, so you really can't do a 360 swap lol. My friend dropped a 350 bored .030 over into a CJ-7.

It sounds like you have worked on quite a few mild 302 based engines with less money in them than a stock LS# engine. That is not a fair comparison. If an LS# engine costs $5000 or more new, or $3000ish used plus new parts, than it's only fair to spend $4000-$6000, or more to equal the costs of an LS# engine.

My 347 cost around $4500, complete, fully dressed. It is worth 400hp just like it is, and a very mild boost will make it strong enough for most comparisons. But that's still less money than an LS# engine, plus the stock block limits, so be fair and also include a Dart block. Right there you have a block that can handle any power, so stop mentioning weak blocks. Never use a stock 302 block for serious power.

To compare a strong 302 based engine to a strong LS# engine, spend the same $6000 or so on each. I'll take the Ford engine, it's smaller and lighter and will beat the Chevy. Don't use junk heads or OTS cams, or small intakes. Get the good stuff, the big stuff, the custom cam and Dart block, and then spank the Chevy.

I'll keep my Ford engine in my Ford body, and beat the Chevy engine in whatever you stick it in. Regards,

Dude, really? Now you're comparing a built 302 to a stock LSx??

I love Fords, and I love my 302, but even I am aware that the LSx is a superior engine. And you can't sit there and harp on the price, because the LSx out of the box has better internals.

And I'm sorry to break this to you, but to get an LS1 to the same 400hp that you have with your 347, will take nothing but bolt ons, and a tune. Now if you wanna compare strokers, then lets compare a 383 stroker to the 347... there's no comparison. LS1 F-Body's do almost 300rwhp stock...

 

[CDW6212R]

Dude, my name isn't Dude, and you are full of crap. You are stating comparisons between a stock 302 and a stock LS#. Only a moron would use stock inferior 302 guts to build anything but a stock engine.

So by definition the stock LS# is superior to a stock 302(nobody argues that, why did you state that). You go ahead and run your stock 302 against a stock LS#, that would be stupid.

I'm not harping on anything. Only a moron would expect to fairly compare a $3000-$6000 LS# to a $1500-$3500 302 built with various stock or junk parts.

You are going to spend tons of money on an LS#, and to me $3500 is a ton for a used engine. I'm going to race you fairly with a 302 based engine that I spend a similar amount of money. That's fair.

Any Ford performance engine I build will have equal or superior internal parts to your LS# engine. Strength is not an issue. The real issue is head design, camshaft design, intake and valvetrain, and reciprocating weights. Ford has long since the 60's made the best heads stock, with the aftermarket stuff, those are still better than any Chevy garbage. I'll take my high port heads or my Cleveland heads and laugh at your modern pushrod junk.

Chevy invested too much money into revamping pushrod engines. Ford did a horrible job of designing modular engines(they are too large(long stroke), with poor heads).They both screwed up, so here we are still enjoying the old Ford pushrod engines. They hold their own against any Chevy, which by definition is a POS to me.

You go ahead and keep bench racing stock engines, the stock LS1 F-Body's etc. The smart Ford guys will be buying the superior aftermarket heads, intake, and custom cams. You bring that stock LS1 F-Body to the track and see how far that 300hp gets you. LOL,