My '92 Explorer Is Heating Up - Please Help!

[Gabriels Rage]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

Doonze: It sounds like your fan is doing the exact same thing as mine... It always spins, and it looks pretty fast to me but I've never really seen a fan spin. Also, mine moves about an inch like yours... This is interesting, but I could not imagine a fan being the source to over heating this much.

I just realized something as I'm writing this. With the hood open and the truck running, as its starting to heat up I always hear something sound like its engaging. We just assumed that it was the thermostat opening all the way. But every time we checked the upper radiator hose it was empty until it got to about two or three letters later! Could this be the fan clutch we're hearing? I don't know... I'm still thinking it might be the water pump (as much as I don't want it to be)... The guy I was planning on having come over still has not called me back, so I don't know when he'll be able to take a look for me.
Pretty funny fan idea, but it might be worth a shot. lol... Send me a Christmas card please! I want that one hung on my wall.

Maniak: If I could get the truck going long enough to test it at speed that would be great, but I virtually can't get it off my driveway without thinking it will explode...
I like the idea of the thermometer. I'll look into getting that... Thanks for the recommendation. I think 230F would be high enough anyways. If it gets above that I got a suicidal truck I would think!

As of now I'm just letting it sit there until I figure something out. Either have someone come and look at it, or get some more testing information here.

Thanks guys, I'll let you know if I figure anything out.

 

[doonze]

You know, a couple of things you've said bother me. (Not you saying them, but WHAT you were saying )

First of all, you should never hear a thermostat open and close, if you boil one and watch you'll understand it's not a "snap" open kinda thing, it just slowly opens. So whatever your hearing isn't that. Maybe the compressor for the AC?? It's that big thing with a belt on it that's on the very top drivers side of the front part of the engine (could that sentence make less sense?)

So anyway, could be engaging, you will notice if that is it, because it will click real loud, and when it does you will see the "clutch" inside the pulley start to spin, or stop spinning, when it clicks. If indeed you AC compressor is engaging for some reason, it could be causing you to overheat much faster then normal and making this whole thing harder then it needs to be. If this is the case, then you need to turn if off inside the cab. (if the little yellow light is on below the low-high speed selector then it's on, press the knob to turn it off, And make sure it's not on defrost) If it's coming on but the buttons are not turning it off, then just disconnect all cables from the compressor for now and we can worry about the a/c later.

Now, if it's not that, you might be right, it might be the fan clutch, but I've never heard mine, course mine may be bad so yeah. Maybe someone with a working fan can tell us if it "clicks". So much for your clicking issue, now onto the next thing that bothers me...

You stated that there is no water in the upper radiator hose until the stat opens.... How do you KNOW this, and also if there isn't, then you got some issues with your water pump. There should be water in there at all times. (once the system is filled)

Here's a test for ya to try, take the upper heater hose off so that it's only attached to anything at the top of the engine (this is the HEATER hose, not the RADIATOR hose I'm talking about) this is a test best tried with some help. Now have one person hold the hose away from their face (and yours, and any pets or witches) and the other person goes and starts the truck. From what I've been told the water should shoot out of that hose about 2 feet. If it doesn't then the water pump is shot. Something to try, just don't run it more then a few seconds with the hose unplugged. I haven't tried this myself, but I'm pretty sure it was Maniak who posted about it, so maybe he can chime in about exactly what should happen. I'm guessing 2+ feet is good, 1-2 feet is questionable, and less then 1 foot of shootage is bad....? I don't KNOW this, just guessing.

Let us know if you and your help survived, and if any wicked witches got melted.

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Alright, so I know its been a long time since I've posted -- sorry about that.
I've been working on my sisters car, and just over all life....

Anyways, about the truck: I took the thermostat housing off again to check things out. The housing is pretty ugly as I already knew, but it does not seem to have any problems. I boiled this thermostat, and it seems to be working right. It started to engage at about 195'esk degrees, which I was told was stock for the 4.0L. So since this one opens 20+ degrees sooner then the old one, and it slowly engages as oppose to "popping" open, I think it works. Other then that I don't got a lot of information about it...
A mechanic that was working on my sisters car said one thing that is popular with the 3.0L's is they'll get a cracked head, and its possible that might be whats going on with mine. He told us about this product that you put in the radiator with just water and it flows threw the system (with it running of course) and will seal up any cracks that it could have. Either way, I thought it might not be a bad thing to try. What do you guys think??? I thought if it was a cracked head there would be other signs pointing it out to me. Help?

Thanks Doonze for all the replies. I understand the thermostat thing, and its not the AC. I have it turned off, and disconnected just to make sure. I suppose I could even take the belt off it, just to help things run a little better. Wouldn't be hard since the belt is off right now anyways...

I'm still thinking its the fan clutch that I was hearing, but its hard to say... It might be something else entirely.

Regarding the hose, I think it probably does have "some" water in it, just not FULL of water. I could squeeze it and it not really fight back much at all, and I would not really hear anything. HOWEVER, when I took the thermostat housing off, there was some water that came out. I can't really remember though.... It seems like there was some, but not a hole lot. Also, the radiator was full, but the block did not seem to have as much fluid in it as it did the first time I took off the thermostat. It makes me think it might be a water pump issue.
I might try some more testing to see if the water pump is the problem. If it is, then I think I'll give it back the guy.... The water pump looks like its about $150ish? If its that expensive, then its not worth it to me unless the owner just hands me the title as oppose to making me pay for it. The part that worries me is that even if I do replace the water pump because that was the problem, what if the internals are all warped and screwed up due to it over heating so much? Then I would have a much bigger problem on my hands... Its hard to say how hard and long the guy drove it with it heating up... I'm really tempted to just give it back to him and buy a 240sx shell and drop another engine in it. It would be really close the same price as buying the truck and a new water pump for it. Not to mention the gas mileage would be better....

And to make the financial decision worst, my work is not giving me any more hours this month!

So if anyone could help me out here, that would be great... I'm just letting it sit until something can be figured out on what to do next.

So depressing.......................

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Problem Found

Well, my water pump testing turned up **** today.
I did a bunch of searching and decided on the best route to go to test it. That was to just take the thermostat out, and put everything else back in place but keep the radiator cap off and watch it and the temperature gauge (with it running, of course). I should have been able to see the water flow through the radiator (the water level would go down as its going back into the system), and the temp gauge was not suppose to move much -- but it did. Things got hot, and the water never moved. The stupid upper radiator hose was even empty, even though the thermostat housing was really hot.

So now that we know I need to replace the Water pump, how much is that going to cost me and is it worth it? Is there anywhere that I should/shouldn't buy it from in particular?
My researches have showed me that it can cost anywhere from $50-150 with a gasket. What would be the realistic price range for this?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thank you...
~Gabe
p.s. I'll take pictures of the hole rig and make a new thread for it tomorrow...

 

[nitro71]

Water pump is $58 at Autozone, gasket $5. If I were you I'd look at the condition of the whole vehicle. Is there anything else that needs fixing? Are there any check engine lights. How's the transmission? That's huge on a Explorer. I prefer the manual trannies on a X. The really good thing about the Explorer is there are tons of parts at local junk yards. Find yourself a pull n save type junk yard and go yank a water pump off. You'll learn how it comes off, I wouldn't buy one there unless it looked like it had been replaced though and was very inexpensive. You mentioned a 240SX, decent car but a X with 31 inch tires can run one over : )

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Water pump is $58 at Autozone, gasket $5. If I were you I'd look at the condition of the whole vehicle. Is there anything else that needs fixing? Are there any check engine lights. How's the transmission? That's huge on a Explorer. I prefer the manual trannies on a X. The really good thing about the Explorer is there are tons of parts at local junk yards. Find yourself a pull n save type junk yard and go yank a water pump off. You'll learn how it comes off, I wouldn't buy one there unless it looked like it had been replaced though and was very inexpensive. You mentioned a 240SX, decent car but a X with 31 inch tires can run one over : )

Thanks nitro!
The vehicle is a bit on the shady side of life in terms of the condition... Its not crap imo, but its pretty ugly in some places... It does got a lot of rust, which is the part that concerns me the most in terms of resale value.
My camera is charging at the moment, but once its done I'll take pictures and post 'em up on a new thread.

I love the 240sx... But it could totally see one crushed by an explorer! lol!

Oh, and the car does handle fine. The transmission seems really smooth (its an auto), and its stiff like all trucks. The couple times I've taken it around the block I was not really paying any attention to the way it drove, as I was focusing on the temperature.

Anyways, I'll get those pics and post them shortly.

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Okay, I couldn't find where to post the pics, so I'll just put them up here.

XLT! Hoorah!

One of the three dents:

The biggest scratch on the hole car:

Sun damage on the hatch (on both sides) that seems to be common on this year/paint:

Ugly sun damage on roof and hatch:

And more pealing on the hole thing:

Rust!

More sun damage on hood and my ghetto sun reflector (believe it or not, it works great):

Its got a hitch, and a spare! And its all covered in rust........

Only 52 thousand miles!!!

Try more like 252k miles...

Thermostat control nob is missing, but hey... Thats what needle nose pliers are for, right?

Recently installed brand new heater core! But its fins were bent by the dork that put it in.....

The thrashed drivers seat... I don't really care though, its super comfy like it was brand new! The rest of the seats all look great, with the exception of one stain on the back bench.

The one spot of the care with the lowest amount of stains.... The rest of it is covered in coffee/soda stains and who knows what else. :

Finally, the lovely engine bay that I've spent too much time on to not find the problem until now....

New radiator and cap!

Thats right... I got A/C!

The ugly thermostat housing that flakes every time you touch it...

Time for the bad stuff....... Rusted out wheel well, and main frame.

Better picture of the main frame and wheel well....

Catalytic converter and everything around it all rusted...

You know what this is... At least it has the screws unlike Doonze's! lol!

Suspension/mainframe/support all rusted and dirty, but not bad compared to the rest.

And finally, the ugly exhaust tip that is extremely out of focus.

One other thing that I forgot to take a picture of is that the henge on the drivers door is weak, so it takes a bit of work to lift the door up and shut it into place...

So what do you all think... Is it worth keeping? Replace the water pump for $60'esk dollars, and it probably would be good to go.
If I replace the water pump and that cures it. The total cost of the car without title fees, would probably put me at about $420 for a running truck. Then filling it up would probably cost a ton and getting the title transferred, but thats not too bad.... Its got a clean title, too. Never had a wreck or anything.

Sooooo..... Keep it, buy it and fix then sale, or just give it back to the guy and loose the little bit of money I put in it?

 

[nitro71]

400 bucks and it runs? Can you get anything else that runs for $400 bucks? You should understand though that this isn't the last fix on it for you. I'm betting about 2-300 to bring it up to speed. Maybe less if you have a pull n save type junk yard available. Just a full fluid change, everything will run you over $50 bucks easily if not more. Another thing to consider is taking gals out, gals like 4x4ing, just start later in the evening so it gets dark out, the back seat is pretty large : )

 

[Gabriels Rage]

True, finding anything else that runs this cheap is pretty unlikely... I'm starting to like this beast.
I already did the oil and its filter and the transmission is running fine, so I really don't want to bother with it. If anything the brakes need to be replaced and flushed, but thats not too bad. I just got done doing it for my sister. I already got the coolant too, so thats no problem. I do got a you pull it yard about 3-4 miles from my house, so thats nice. Not the mention the million mechanic shops and part stores.

Hahaha, good point about the girls...
My girlfriend loves the explorer, and she loves to 'get dirty' working on it. If you catch what I mean.

I'm thinking pretty hard about keeping it. Just gotta do some financial research...

 

[doonze]

I'd keep it, just for a beater if nothing else.... so any updates since this last post??

(Sorry, I really never leave the 91-94 Fourm....ever.... I need to get out more!) LOL

 

[Gabriels Rage]

Hey, its been a long time since I've updated this thread. I was waiting until I got some better pics, but whatever....
We took a shot and bought the new water pump. When we took off the old one we noticed the problem right away... There was a piece of the propeller broken off and missing, and it was not even connected to the pole (for lack of a better word at this very out-of-it-moment).
cleaned the old gasket off and all that got it installed filled it with anti-freeze saying "its this or nothing." Bought some gas and poured it in then ran it. Took it around the block, she ran great! At first the temperature gauge went way up and then just dropped to N right away and we heard the Heater Core fill up with fluid implying that the thermostat opened. Next day we took the cap off and filled it up with another gallon of anti-freeze and now it won't even budge past the center of 'N', even on hills.
Heater works great and so does the A/C. And... it drives like a ####ing *****! lol...

Registered it in my name and its now on the insurance. WOOT!
Total cost of truck, repairs, and registration: approx. $480!
Not bad at all IMO...
Oh, and by the way; the fan clutch was the easiest thing on earth to take out... Like, I don't even begin to understand why people hate taking that thing off so much, it was cake for me. Even taking the water pump off was easy...
Next step is to replace the drivers door hinge, then buying a new stereo system.
Time to start working my ass off to afford everything.

Thanks everyone for all the help! This was a great project for me, and I can't wait to make it badazz like all yours...
Cy'all around!
~Gabe