New to Explorers, think I have a timing chain tensioner issue

[imp]

@explorernewb
Regarding a place to work I hear ya! Been fortunate most of my life to have access to work space. Paying that rental fee does not sound cost effective, even if you can push the vehicle outdoors when not working on it. Depending on your own abilities, the job may require LOTS of time. A '99 is already not worth enough to pour a ton of dough into. These are of course only my opinions. Your situation might dictate fixing it. The other problems you mention add to the burden.

A suggestion: have you a friend or relative who might have the space to do the job? Possible to short-term rent some old guy's garage? Maybe run an ad. Good luck! imp

 

[explorernewb]

@imp
I have both a friend and a family member that both have the tools and the place to do the work. Readily available, not so much, and both are pretty far away. Not trying to make up excuses, I've already talked to my family member about it and got the green light. We just have to find a time we can both be in the same place at the same time.

Just a note; I finally got around to changing the oil, did it right after I wrote my update above. I've driven this 1k miles since I got it and I was checking the oil just the other day and it said it was just below the top of the hatch marks on the dipstick. Drained it, pulled the crappy CarQuest oil filter and found that all the oil in the filter and what came out of the pan was just below 4 quarts. Filled up the new recommended oil filter with about a quart before putting it on and put in the rest of a 5 quart jug and now the clacking of the chains are barely noticeable. The oil line is right at the top of the hatch marks on the dipstick, which is odd since it seems I put in more oil than what came out, unless the oil filter that was on there still has a lot of oil in it magically.

 

[shucker1]

@explorernewb

I've already talked to my family member about it and got the green light. We just have to find a time we can both be in the same place at the same time.

Not looking to preach my friend but it seems like you are between a rock and a hard place.

What is family for? Take the time, and take them up on their offer. In the long run you won't regret it.

Life is very short. Take every opportunity you can to spend time with family. Even if you are working on your rig.

35 \ Hr to rent space in a garage? WFT? With no tools to boot? Those cats need a mask and a freakin gun!.

 

[imp]

@explorernewb
You hit the key word. Magic. Much of the unexplainable which happens in mechanics, production, and the like, is akin to magic; imponderable, intangible. My boss years ago claimed "rubber is magic". We manufactured oil seals. Seemed no mater how knowledgeable the most experienced mold designers were, inexplicable things happened, when squeezing uncured rubber compound into mold cavities. Automotive engineering must follow suit. If it did not, why would, at this stage of manufacturing experience and knowledge, recalls happen, year after year?

Your reply suggests perhaps the hydraulic chain tensioner was fouled, or starved for oil, and, back doing what it is supposed to, the chain noise has ceased.

But, don't count on it. Time will tell. Good luck! imp

 

[explorernewb]

@explorernewb



Not looking to preach my friend but it seems like you are between a rock and a hard place.

What is family for? Take the time, and take them up on their offer. In the long run you won't regret it.

Life is very short. Take every opportunity you can to spend time with family. Even if you are working on your rig.

35 \ Hr to rent space in a garage? WFT? With no tools to boot? Those cats need a mask and a freakin gun!.

It's not that I don't want to go spend time with a family member, that's not the problem. Like I said, it's about being in the same place at the same time, our schedules don't mesh. Oh the shop rental provides a lift and tools, I thought I had mentioned that, my bad.

 

[imp]

@shucker1
Ponderable! Your post hit 3 minutes before mine, hence I missed it. Would have included advice along with mine. Yours is more enheartening, unlike my harsh, hard-headed obstinacy.

How I love hearing a failed cassette, trough, guide, or whatever the hell they are, actually wasn't. Because I'm pushing 160K now, nothing ever touched. Quiet as a mouse still. Lucky, or the danged engine fears facing my wrath: 10 lb. sledge hammer. imp

 

[imp]

It's not that I don't want to go spend time with a family member, that's not the problem. Like I said, it's about being in the same place at the same time, our schedules don't mesh. Oh the shop rental provides a lift and tools, I thought I had mentioned that, my bad.

@explorernewb
You did mention that. Collectively, 'ole Shuck and I seem to agree that it's a lot of dough. But, we ain't the ones facing what you are. You'll work it out, I am sure. imp

 

[shucker1]

@explorernewb

It's not that I don't want to go spend time with a family member, that's not the problem. Like I said, it's about being in the same place at the same time, our schedules don't mesh.

Never said that you didn't want to spend time with family. The thought never crossed my mind.

I understand about the schedules meeting comment. "Been there and done that, got the hat and the tee shirt to go with it!"

Take it from an old geezer like me, force yourself to make the time. Life is moving too fast these days.

 

[LoquetusofBorg]

Please Don't replace the tensioners. I did that to mine @ about 205-210,000 miles, just for preventive maintenance. The new tensioners literally broke both cassettes at the same time. It is cheaper to get a re-manufactured motor for around 2300.00 then to remove and replace and fix what you have now unless you do the work yourself!
Loquetus

 

[Spuddy]

I am sorry to completely disagree, but, I am the only one to have had good luck with their chain tensioners?

I only have only 10k miles since doing passenger side at 150k. I only did that after still hearing noise after doing the manifold gaskets and the driver's side tensioner at 125k. She started complaining at maybe 75k miles but I just ignored it, because it sounded like way too much work, and I thought she was probably a goner anyway. So I waited 50k miles, before deciding she was a keeper, after flushing the tranny and fixing my valve body issues, and doing the ball joints.

And, I do now firmly believe that running Lucas Oil additive (at first awareness of the death-rattle issue), and then doing the tensioners has completely saved - what I believe still are - my plastic chain guides. I now have dead-silent chains on cold-starts everytime, not never.

On some warm restarts she'll still make some noise at idle now, but, then I just wait wait 20-30 seconds for the cranky old ***** to settle down or, I'll shut her down and give her another restart and that will quiet her down.

Pretty remarkable actually.

I just got 20 MPG Hwy last weekend. I was driving her like I just stole her, right up on the lead lap.

I'll get back to you and whether or not the guides are still plastic, after I do the valve cover gaskets that are now suspected to be leaking at 160k...

I was pretty sure that my oil drip was coming from my main seal weeping a little. But, upon closer inspection , it looks like I'm going under the manifolds again because it sure looks like that oil leak coming from under the valve cover gaskets now....

As a bonus he'll get to see if my chain guides are still plastic. My first time in for the drivers tensioner and intake manifold gaskets, I found my first bonus. I found my slow coolant leak...

Yup, one of those coolant temperature sensors was spinning around and leaking at the base off the plastic thermostat housing. So, I upgraded the housing and sensors to the new Sport Trac design. It was really kinda nice to get a three-for-one deal on that repair, "while I was in there."

 

[LoquetusofBorg]

My engine ran the same as yours just beautiful, not a problem anywhere. It got lousy fuel economy but ran absolutely flawless. Then I took the top end off to replace the intake manifold as it just sprung a leak and made the decision to replace everything I could see. While it was all apart I changed the tensioners also, I would have to read my old post on here, but I believe it lasted a month and both cassettes broke at the same time from the pressure of the new tensioners. I would have loved to do the job myself but I live in an apartment building and they would not let me tear into it that way. I spent a lot of money fixing that rig because it was worth it to me, I love the second gen style. Now if I keep it between 40-45 mph and there is no wind I get 25 mpg. On my last trip to Florida in March of 2017 keeping it at 65 mph I got between 19-21 mpg. So in short, I would "NOT" change the tensioners with the miles that are on his rig. Drive it till it drops then if he likes it fix it, if not move on. He might be able to go another year just keeping it lubed good, (don't let your oil get low), but if he puts the new tensioners on it there is a better chance it will fail. Imho.
Loquetus

 

[J_C]

I'd leave it alone at 274K mi. At that point it seems like an all or nothing proposition, that tensioners alone won't reduce the wear on the rest of the engine or tranny.

 

[explorernewb]

There are some interesting comments to say the least. It's got me pondering on if it's even worth it to tear into this and replace the entire timing chain assembly on the front. I'm fairly certain that's the only chain that's having issues. I haven't changed out the tensioner's as it was noted earlier in the thread that it could potentially cause more harm than good if the cassette's are being held in place by the tension alone and pulling out the tensioner could drop the plastic piece and make it even worse.

So the plan has been put into place and I am going to be replacing the front timing assembly in two weeks. By that time I will have all the parts and the place to work on it.

Valve cover gaskets; Does anyone have any recommendations?

I'm seeing two different styles and I'm not exactly sure which one I should be looking at for the 4.0 SOHC on a 99 Explorer.

 

[2000StreetRod]

At 274K miles I predict that the primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner has failed and looks like the one in the photo below.

Note that the spring leaves are entirely missing. Typically the chain rattles at engine mid-range. The primary tensioner is easily replaced after removing the timing cover. Since it can be replaced without loosening any sprocket retaining bolts the camshafts don't have to be timed and no special tools are needed. I have never heard of a SOHC V6 engine being seriously damaged due to a failed primary chain tensioner. Note in the photo that even with no chain tension about 90 degrees of the crankshaft sprocket is engaged with the chain so it doesn't slip.

Also, since you have 4x4 your engine probably has a balance shaft. You may be hearing the balance shaft chain rattling instead of the camshaft chain. There's a good chance the balance shaft chain tensioner has also failed. In order to replace the entire tensioner assembly the block girdle (upper oil pan) must be removed because of the vertical mounting bolts.

As I recall the front axle must be lowered in order to remove the block girdle. In my opinion a functional balance shaft is not essential. Some members just cut the flimsy chain and remove it rather then expend the effort to remove the block girdle.

Since you apparently don't have the special timing tool kit (OTC 6488) and a limited time to make repairs, I suggest that you have a thorough understanding of what's involved in replacing the left (driver) cassette before attempting it.

You may want to review associated threads by clicking on the "My Helpful Threads" link in my signature.

 

[explorernewb]

So, as I understand it, the balance shaft is only there as a harmonics dampening mechanism for the 4x4 system and the chain can simply be removed. That saves me from having to drop the upper oil pan or anything else from underneath.

I'm also inclined to agree with you that it is more likely the primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner that has failed. Won't really know until I get the cover off. I have an endoscope that I plan on snaking down the oil cap opening and see if I can't get a picture of it first.

 

[2000StreetRod]

So, as I understand it, the balance shaft is only there as a harmonics dampening mechanism for the 4x4 system and the chain can simply be removed. That saves me from having to drop the upper oil pan or anything else from underneath.

Some of the 4x4 Explorers came from the factory without balance shaft engines and surprisingly some Mustangs came with balance shaft engines. I suspect that was to keep the production line moving.

I have an endoscope that I plan on snaking down the oil cap opening and see if I can't get a picture of it first.

I hope that you can but I doubt it. I'd like to have an endoscope but haven't been able to justify the expense. In my opinion every reputable engine repair shop should have one.

 

[CoalHeat]

At that mileage you should pull the engine and do a complete replacement of all the timing chains/gears/tensioners, etc. I was trying to find an easy way out, like yours the noise was on start up until the tensioners got oil pressure and kept getting worse. What was happening was pieces of the plastic guides in both cassettes were breaking off. The tensioners extend out farther to try and keep the chain tight.
Right now the engine is out, I have the valve covers off, should be pulling the timing cover and oil pan/block extender today.

 

[explorernewb]

At that mileage you should pull the engine and do a complete replacement of all the timing chains/gears/tensioners, etc. I was trying to find an easy way out, like yours the noise was on start up until the tensioners got oil pressure and kept getting worse. What was happening was pieces of the plastic guides in both cassettes were breaking off. The tensioners extend out farther to try and keep the chain tight.
Right now the engine is out, I have the valve covers off, should be pulling the timing cover and oil pan/block extender today.

I would love to pull it and get it all cleaned up with new gaskets all around, timing chains etc.. Finding the time, money, and place to do such a project and have it back on the road within a few days is a task. Good luck with yours.

Anyone have feedback on what valve cover gaskets to use on a 4.0 sohc?

 

[archer973]

I replaced all the chains, cassettes, and tensioners in my '98 4.0L SOHC (VIN E). I found a lot of useful info on this forum and I highly recommend the helpful threads posted by 2000StreetRod. He has a lot of knowledge about this engine.

Concerning the noise "coming from the front left top area," mine had noise from that area, too, according to the previous owner. When I disassembled the engine, I found the upper mounting bolt for the chain cassette had broken. This bolt was redesigned for later years, I think starting in 2000. This might be the problem with yours.

The bolt is accessible from the front of the engine so you could try turning it to see if that is the problem. If it's broken it can be replaced by removing the valve cover and front cover. There may be problems getting the broken piece of the old bolt removed. On mine, enough of the bolt still protruded so I could grab it with pliers and back it out.

 

[CoalHeat]

I would love to pull it and get it all cleaned up with new gaskets all around, timing chains etc.. Finding the time, money, and place to do such a project and have it back on the road within a few days is a task. Good luck with yours.

Anyone have feedback on what valve cover gaskets to use on a 4.0 sohc?

Don't know about you, but here nothing is ever "a few days"