No turn signals, no dash lights, no luck!

[gliderman8]

Hello everyone. I am a new member and I'm enthused about finding this great site. Here's my problem and I'm hoping someone will be able to help.
Yesterday both of my turn signals on my 1997 Ford Explorer stopped working. Thinking it was just a bad flasher relay, I replaced it but that did not solve the problem. Also check the fuses and all was good. My next step was to check the voltage going into the flasher relay. I found one wire that was hot all the time, and one that was hot when the ignition was "on". Everything seemed as it should.
My next action was to remove the turn signal stalk and clean all of the contacts which were very dirty. I reinstalled the stalk. ALL functions work except the turn signals and no dash lights. I am tapped out... can anyone help!
Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to offer.
gliderman8

 

[my98nnj]

Check the emergency flasher switch, I believe the flasher runs through that switch.
Your dash lights are probably not related to the flasher issue. I might be wrong....

 

[gliderman8]

Hello my98nnj and thanks for your reply. I thought the emergancy flasher was controled by the turnsignal flasher. Is there a separated flasher for the turnsignals and one for the emergancy flasher?

 

[budwich]

nope... same flasher.... same switch... MFS. As mentioned, your no dash lights is probably another problem... having said that, are you saying that you ALSO don't get turn signal indicators lights on your dash or are you saying you having no instrument panel illumination???

 

[gliderman8]

Sorry for the confusions, let me make this clearer.
I have NO Turn signal indicators on the dash
I have NO Turn signals on the left and right side of the vehicle
I have NO instrument illuminaton lights
I'm completely baffled!!!

 

[budwich]

the output from the flasher is fed to your external signal lights and also to your dash indicators thru the MFS. Lots of posts on MFS... good candidate for your trouble.... however, you have done some good testing on the input to the flasher (ie. checking voltage), you therefore need to check for some "form" of voltage out on pins 1 and 3 (1 for signal, 3 for hazards)... that will tell you if your flasher is sending the signal to your MFS or not.

On your other problem (illumination), do any of your controls (ie. radio, heater, etc) light up? If not then you likely have a dimmer switch problem. IF so, then you likely have a broken wire running from the common splice that feds both the aftermentioned controls and illuminates your instrument panel.

 

[gliderman8]

budwick- Thanks again for checking back and your helpful advice. I did check the voltage out from the flasher relay. I don't remember the pin numbers, but one was Light Blue, and the other was White/red trace. I did get voltage on the White/red trace but nothing on the Light Blue wire. Figuring it still might be the flasher relay, I went to the Ford dealer and got another flasher unit for 3x's the price and still no luck.
You are right about the MFS.... I took it completely out of the car and opened it up and clean every contact (they were quite dirty) and reinstalled it.
It seems very odd that both the turn signals and dash illumination lights would go silmultaneously. As far as the controls illumination, No, they do not illuminate either.
I'll keep trying to track it down.
Thanks for checking back here to see how I am doing.

 

[gliderman8]

Budwich-
Sorry, I misspelled your name in my last post... my apologies!

 

[budwich]

ok... thanks for the added info.... what's in an "internet name" anyways...

well... I think you have got it down... almost.... the LB output from the flasher IS your feed for the turn signals.... BUT ... as someone "posed" about your hazards... Do they work???? don't go buying parts just yet... you aren't quite there... at least in my "financial books".

My suspicion is that you don't have the "hot in run" feed to the flasher as the hazards are "hot all the time".... and hence your new flasher won't work either.

 

[gliderman8]

Hello again. You are right about the internet name.... mine is my alter ego
After I post this I will go back out and do some additional testing.
I like your financial plan as I am one of the many looking for work but that is another story.
Will let you know what I find. Thanks again.

 

[budwich]

lastly.... the tough one.... check all your interior fusing... with a meter.... my 96 drawings have a "suspect" 33 fuse but YMMV for instrument stuff.... but your highs would be out though... hmmmm?????

 

[gliderman8]

Ok, just got in from testing voltages at the flasher connecter:
Pin #1 Key On= 12v
Pin #2 Key On= 12v
Pn #3 Always 12v
Pin #4 Ground
Pin #5 Key On= approx. 10v Key Off= approx. 7v
There you have it... the fuses have to be good since I get power. I know the MFS is good since I throughly cleaned the contacts.
Not sure what you mean by "YMMV"

 

[budwich]

YMMV... cause I have 96 drawing... the fuse may be difference or the circuit may be different in 97.

back one step... your measurements are good.... BUt you didn't answer my question. Do you hazards work????

 

[gliderman8]

Hazards DO NOT Work.

 

[budwich]

OK... that's great.

Now you have my attention....

back to your measurements.... there is something wrong here or different from 96 to 97 (but suspicious as I don't think they are different on the unit itself). Pin 1 and 3 are outputs (at least in 96)... pin 1 LB going to signals, Pin 3 W/R going to hazards. INPUTS are pin 2 R/W going to "Hot at all times" and pin 5 O/V (I think... my diagram is hard to read) going to "hot in run". Your reading on Pin 5 is "funny"... suggesting a less than good input value.... possibly a bad / almost blown fuse or broken wire going to the fuse box maybe. Doesn't explain the "no hazards" though. Maybe a 96 versus 97 thing.

 

[gliderman8]

You know I had the same "funny" feeling when I took the readings last evening. Is it possible that since the panel illumination failed at the same time that I have a short or burned wire causing the problems?
What value should I have on pin 5?
And, before I forget. THANKS for all of your efforts in helping me..... they are APPRECIATED!

 

[gliderman8]

One more comment....
I have to go run an errand. When I return in an hour or so I will get you the color wire that is associated with each pin so that we can establish that the schematic is the same for 96 and 97.
I agree with you that they are probably the same for the flasher system.

 

[budwich]

No problem.... I ain't going anywhere (unemployed -> "forced retirement"... )...

You might be reading the pin numbers "differently"... so trying to align colors might help. Further getting a automotive test light (cheap or make one with a tail light bulb and wires) might help as the voltage out isn't really 12v DC, its pulsing which might be your ~10v depending on what your meter scale is (ie. DC or AC). You are getting close.... I think

 

[gliderman8]

Hello again. I too am in the same boat as far as the unemployment thing. Got "downsized" (I hate that term!) about eight months ago and my age and the bleak economy are not in my favor.
OK, onto my turn signals.... Last evening, I measured voltages (with my VOM meter) with the relay attached and used the backside of the connector. In retrospect, I think that was not the right way to do it so I just took readings again with the relay disconnected and just used the plug connector to get my readings.
This is what I found:
#1 Light Blue: Nothing with key on or off
#2 Orange/yel.: +12 with key on
#3 Red/wht.: +12 all the time
#4 White/red: Nothing with key on or off
#5 Black: +11.6 Key on
Above readings with relay DISCONNECTED

check each wire and did not find any ground which seems strage to me. Also, I checked continuity from the plug end connector of the relay up to the MFS connector and found that both the Light Blue and the White/red each had continuity.
I sure hope this helps. Please have a look at my readings and your schematice. I will owe you a case of whatever you want for all the help!

 

[gliderman8]

One more comment.... It bothers me that with the connector off of the relay I did not find any ground.
I check continuity on each of the 5 wires with ground and NOTHING. I would think that in order for the relay to have power, it must have a ground wire.
Could a short cause it to lose ground?
I am going crazy