O/D light flashing and 1st to 2nd trouble - Glacier991 HELP!

[blueye7]

Yesterday the problem began (the weather has gotten a lot colder lately).
I noticed a delay/slip when shifting in to 2nd gear. I had to let off the gas a little to get it to shift up. It happened again soon after and it seems like about 80% of the time, I have to let off the throttle to convince it to shift. After this happened about 8 times..the dreaded O/D light started flashing.
I have done some reading in this forum and have found many of the same symptoms but no real success stories for getting it fixed without virtually replacing the entire truck. Glacier991 seems to be the resident expert on the subject so hopefully he can shed some light on it for me. I really don't have the $1,500 laying around for a new trans and am praying that it is just a problem with a speed sensor or something simple. I took it to the mechanic today but when he hooked it up to the diagnostic computer, it showed no error code. He asked me to come back Monday morning when he will have his "other" computer back that he had lent out. He hopes we'll get an error code then and be able to make a diagnosis.

Thanks everyone for your advise

cwells@gfxi.com

 

[Glacier991]

The flashing OD light is a clue that you DO have a trouble code stored. If it does not show up on a generic scan, it is probably a proprietary code. It COULD be as simple as a failure of the SSB solenoid.... Proprietary Code 1715, or 1756. Anyway...Get the codes and let us know. I'm betting on a solenoid failure.

There ARE other possibles, of course, but let's rule out the obvious potential culprits before we go chasing zebras.

 

[blueye7]

Incorrect gear ratio - 2nd Gear

I took it in this morning and he hooked it up to his other computer. He got an error that read "Incorrect gear ratio - 2nd Gear".
He is calling in to his training center to ask if it could possiibly be something electrical or if a new tranny is needed. I fear the worst.

 

[Abom]

I took it in this morning and he hooked it up to his other computer. He got an error that read "Incorrect gear ratio - 2nd Gear".
He is calling in to his training center to ask if it could possiibly be something electrical or if a new tranny is needed. I fear the worst.

Uhhhh, yeah, if he has to call in, I wouldn't put any value on what he has to say about the problem. The fact that he doesn't know what that error code signifies, means that whatever the person on the other end of the phone tells him, is exactly what he is going to tell you. Don't believe a word of it, go get a second opinion from a reputable transmission shop.

 

[blueye7]

reputable

Would an aamco transmission shop be considered reputable? Wouldn't they be more inclined to convince me I need an entirely new tranny?
My guy came highly recomended and seems to want to help me get it fixed as affordably as possible. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what this error code signifies?
By the way... he cleared the code when he checked it this morning but sure enough, the o/d light started flashing again 30 seconds down the road and the problem persists.

He just called me to tell him what his tranny shop said. From thier experience the problem is either a bad acumulator or a bad band. He said it could take a day or two to diagnose and if a new tranny was needed, would cost 1,675 installed.

 

[Glacier991]

<sigh> what I really need is the actual numeric code. The definitions can vary but the numeric code is the key. Like P0732 etc. Otherwise I am at the mercy of what the definitions lookup table says. But let's assume it is in fact P0732.

The fact that code exists is first diagnosed by checking for solenoid failure. It makes me curious than they jump ahead to internal transmission problems so quickly.

I am going to venture that there is about a 75% chance the problem is solenoid or valve body related.... even possibly a blown gasket in the VB. I'd say the chance of it being friction material or other internal hard parts related is 25% and likely even lower.

The 4R55E Valve body is nearly identical to the 5R55E Valve body. There is a thread at the top in the stickies that shows how to rebuild the 5R55E Valve body that is equally applicable to the 4R, and suggests upgraded parts and also shows some special FORD mod's done to the VB along the way by FORD itself. I'm willing to bet that were that to be followed, your problem would go away.

Print out the 3rd post in that thread (the FORD TSB) and take it to your guy.

ps. depending on miles replacing the EPC at the same time as the FORD MOD is a good idea, and in your year it is a pricey little devil.

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Hi Blueye7 and Glacier991,

Glacier991 is right about a lot of things in his post as to what the problems could be. Go step by step, but I think you may be at a mechanical problem with your transmission. Here is my 3 week saga.......

I have been going through the EXACT same problems and the only OBD II code scanner that read all the DTC codes correctly on my Ford 4R55E transmission is the FORD NGS tester. I finally know what is wrong with my 96 Explorer transmission.

For you Blueye, if that was the diagnosis from the code scanner, "Incorrect gear ratio - 2nd Gear" and the code PROBABLY was P0732, then you need to rebuild your trannie as you have a broken band #2. Tough to diagnose what is wrong from what little you have told us, but from what you describe, it sounds like a broken band #2, a mechanical problem and that you might as well do a complete and full rebuild of the transmission while you have it out of the truck.

Go to an ATRA certified shop. Find one where you live. If at all possible, STAY AWAY FROM AAMCO TRANSMISSION REPAIR SHOPS. They have a horrible reputation in Southern California. http://www.atra.com/ look on the left at the ATRA website, to find a local certified shop near you and for gods sake, stay at the shop when they open your trannie up and watch them like a hawk and ask them questions. If you live in Southern California, Jul's Transmission in Hollywood on Hyperion, 1-323-666-1955, Gaby the mechanic, is honest and good and diligent. Rare thing these days.

Another option is to buy a rebuilt trannie off eBay, there is a guy selling Ford 4R55E rebuilts with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty, parts and labor $675, plus $260 RT shipping charges and there is a core charge too and your core has to be rebuildable.... The guy who owns the business used to be a transmission consultant to the auto industry. I emailed him and he was honest and forthright. They do a rigorous rebuild and pressure testing and running of all their rebuilds. The transmission is shipped out in a black high impact plastic shipping case like the Ford factory uses to ship trannies to their dealers. Ask this guy for a local shop recommendation to install their rebuilt trannie, and then call that shop to get a price for the installation and if they will do it. Pretty simple/easy to do with the right tools.

RoadMaster Transmission Service, Inc.
975 Lunt Avenue
Schaumburg, IL 60193
847-524-4857

Monday - Friday 8am - 5pm CST

Saturday 8am - 12n CST

Or you can go the other route and try to fix your trannie locally. Have an ATRA shop, read out the OBD II DTC codes from the truck. If you have P0732, then you have a broken band #2 and need to rebuild the trannie. Have them drop the valve body and look on the passenger right side of the transmission up into a 2"x2" square opening in the upper valve body in the main transmission case and you will see the #2 band. Check to see if it is tight or loose. It is probably dangling down/broken or the band has snapped at some point on the band and is loose. The bands usually break at the attachment points to the transmission case.

You'll have to drop the transmission and rebuild it and you might as well do it completely so it will last another 100,000 miles + and make sure you use Mobil1 Synthetic ATF. I have had great wear on all my Explorers and my cars with this ATF fluid. I now have 126,000 miles on my original automatic transmission on my 95 BMW 325, with fluid/filter changes every 20,000 miles. It makes a huge difference.

While you are in there rebuilding, replace the turbine speed sensor with a brand new FORD factory part, not aftermarket, then use Borg Warner heavy duty clutch pack discs and upgrade the valve body per the instructions here on the Forum with a shift kit and the upgrades to the valve body plate. Check the front and back of the torque convertor to make sure it has not been overheated, and that will show up as a slight yellowing of the metal at the inner edge/diameter of the TC on either side.

You have to give the Forum a little more info to be able to have someone give you an intelligent and informed opinion of what has happened to your trannie.
1. How many miles on you 95 Explorer Sport?
2. Did you check the transmission fluid when hot and on level ground was red and at the full mark?
3. Was the fluid burned/brown?
4. Any leaks in your transmission cooler, or on the trannie case?
5. Any transmission work ever done on the trannie?
6. When was the last fluid and filter change you had?

Before we used the FORD NGS tester on my Explorer, we used my transmission repair guys SNAP-ON tester and a MAC tools tester and the only code we got was P0756, SSB failure, shift solenoid 2. So Gaby thought it had to be an electrical problem, not a mechanical problem as we had checked the solenoids and ALL THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS AND CIRCUITS TO THE PCM and the wiring harness inside the pan to the solenoids. He swore up and down it was an electrical problem. He was wrong. And this is a guy who owns and runs a transmission shop that rebuilds transmissions only. The problem was that his buddy who owned the FORD NGS tester did not tell Gaby about the P0732 DTC code when it came up.... If he had told Gaby, Gaby would have known immediately that it was a mechanical problem, not an electrical problem.

When we used the Ford NGS tester, it read out P0732 AND P0756 DTC codes after driving the 96 Ford Explorer XLT 2wd, 4.0 liter engine, 115,000 miles. P0732 is an incorrect gear ratio and means a mechanical failure in the transmission and P0756 is SSB or shift solenoid 2 not working itself or a problem in the valve body. My transmission repair guy was pissed that he had not used the FORD NGS tester first.

P0732 is a mechanical failure in the transmission. We dropped the valve body and looking up into the case, sure enough band 2 was broken. So we are going to do a complete rebuild now.

End of problem.

The ATSG manual is very very accurate for diagnosing the problems with these transmissions. What are very inaccurate are the OBD II aftermarket code scanners. Get access to a place that has the FORD NGS OBD II code scanner.

The Ford NGS tester can activate all the solenoids individually WHILE THE TRANNIE IS IN THE TRUCK and can test the PCM as well.

Good luck. I just spent 3 weeks fooling around with this problem, but IMHO that was because we thought it was an electrical/valve body problem based on an incomplete DTC code read out from aftermarket scanners that only gave us 1 of the DTC codes, P0756, but not the P0732. FORD NGS code scanner all the way and an honest transmission mechanic/shop...

 

[Glacier991]

Excellent post 1karkrazyguy. I agree with about 97% of everything you say, and yes I agree that an NGS tester is a wonderful tool. but the 95 4R55E needs the Rotunda Transmission tester... another excellent tool though not NGS capability by any means, I am not sure the interactive NGS capability extended back into the 95 transmission.... anyway, the only thing I take any issue with in your excellent post is that a code P0732 is automatically a sign of a broken band...though that is certainly on the list of potential culprits.

The 4R55 and 5R55 have been plagued by VB issues... so much so in fact that I bet almost half of the rebuilds done to those transmissions were in fact not transmission rebuild items at all. (Note - Unsubstantiated opinion here Glacier is solely responsible for that statement and cannot back it up with facts - so sue me).

The FORD TSB mentions P0732 as possible DTC returns necessitating the TSB application in the first place... the portion of the TSB procedures in my mind that come into play in the P0732 situation are the new separator plate and gasket part of the TSB, and for a P0732 suggests a blown gasket in the scheme of that TSB.

I think most folks who suffer a broken band WILL find the welded V of an anchor in the pan, you are correct that some will hang up and not fall. Either way in a P0732 situation I'd first check the pan (which I do anytime I drop one and everyone kind of does intuitively). If the pan is clean and I had a P0732 I'd drop the VB and as you wisely suggested check the band anchor area up the square hole in the case leading up there. Before I got very excited though, I'd look at the separator plate gasket when I removed the VB.... IF the TSB is going to fix things when a code P0732 is present, the best odds say you WILL find a blown out gasket on the separator plate.... though not always on the plate to case side..... yet 50/50 maybe (grin). The 2nd 50% can be checked by removing the Sep plate from the VB (an easy 3 bolt process.)

Anyway, yours was an excellent and insightful post - the kind I applaud and encourage more of. I just cannot subscribe so easily and completely to the notion that a DTC P0732 means simply a broken intermediate band and think it is overstating the case to say that in all caases P0732 automatically means mechanical failure and a broken intermediate band. It is with respect that I disagree.

Of course we both *assume* that P0732 was the DTC he got.

I'll be curious to know what is found on a pan drop and, if still warranted, VB drop. I hope to be further educated. I am always learning.

 

[blueye7]

kill me

You fellas sure are smart.
Well, per your recomendation, I called Danny in Schamburg, IL (20 minutes from me) and he was incredibly helpful. He quoted me some prices and it came out to $1,710.00 installed with tax. This included a $350 core deposit which I have a good chance of getting a good part back of.
I called my local mechanic and he quoted $1,700 installed but with no core deposit.
I might just use the local shop so I don't have to drive it the 20 minutes and since there is no garauntee I'll get the deposit back. Now I just have to pull $1,700 out of thin air.

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Blue,

Why is everyone in such a hurry on ANY car repair Forum? Blue, you have received some great advice here from Glacier and you should take the time to consider it before rushing ahead into spending a lot of money...

How many miles on your trannie and truck, as you never mentioned that fact?

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170162

Blue, TRY to save yourself some money.... BEFORE DIVING INTO A COMPLETE REBUILD, I would re-read Glacier's post first. I agree with him as it could be a problem with a blown out gasket on the valve body if the DTC code is P0732 instead of the broken band. Easy to check.

Ask the trannie guy locally and the trannie guy in Schaumberg if they will drop the valve body and check to see if the valve body to separator plate gasket is blown out.

The guy in Schaumberg offers a great 2 years, or 24,000 mile warranty on his rebuilt 4 wheel drive transmission units THAT INCLUDES PARTS AND LABOR if something goes wrong with his transmission and AAMCO or any other transmission place only offers, 12,000 miles or 1 year, parts and labor....

Pretty simple choice if I lived 20 minutes from Schaumberg....

But listen to Glacier and have the valve body dropped and checked and be standing there when they do it and look at it. It makes a difference to babysit mechanics when they work on your car....

Good luck.

 

[blueye7]

The tranny has 94,00 miles on it and I've never had it service in the 26,000 miles that I've owned it.
I'll ask about them dropping the valve body and checking it first. I imagine there would be a separate charge for that.

 

[1karkrazyguy]

First, have your truck OBD DTC codes read out with a scan tool to see EXACTLY what is going on with your transmission. Write the codes down. Any legit shop will do that first. If the shop will not do that before they open the trannnie, then drive away from that shop and find another shop certified by ATRA or go to your local FORD dealer and have them read the OBD DTC codes BEFORE THEY DO ANY WORK. Probably will cost you $50.

Stay away from AAMOCO. They do terrible work and only want to sell you a rebuilt.

Once you have the codes, you will have a pretty good idea of what is wrong with your transmission. Get a price quote for any and all work and inspection services and STAND THERE AND WATCH THEM. They are less likely to pull a fast one on you if you do that and make them explain everything clearly to you. If at the end of the diagnosis, if the transmission needs to be rebuilt, make sure this inspection fee is INCLUDED in the price of the rebuild.

Get all your costs and prices UPFRONT before you crack open the transmission and drop the pan.

The shop will have to drop the transmission oil pan to begin with. It is a very easy procedure as the valve body is on the bottom of the transmission and easy to get to. Have them check the pan for a lot of fine black metal material in the ATF fluid first in the pan, and before they drop the valve body they can check to see if the valve body bolts are at the correct torque, if they are, then they can look at the valve body separator plate gaskets to see if they are OK after dropping the valve body.

Then they can also look up inside the case, through the upper half of the valve body, to see if the intermediate band is OK or if it has snapped/broken.

But get the OBD DTC transmission codes first and then go forward step by step.

Good luck.

 

[Glacier991]

Your call Blueye7. I have spent more than a little time trying to suggest a cheaper solution... but also understand you are there I am here and I cannot give you any guarantees that following my dvice is a sure fire cure.

Anyway I have given you the best advice I have to offer. Let us know what you do and how it turns out!

 

[oldmanwinter]

Slow down you guys....

Let me add a few things to this post. Let me start off by saying, I own an transmission shop, also ATRA certified.
When that tranny sets a code for an incorrect gear ratio, it simply means that the computer commanded a shift, and if the shift did not occur within a specified time limit, it will set the code. When SS2 is commanded on to apply the intermediate band to make a second gear shift, it expects to see the gear ratio change within that time limit. If it slipped there could be many things wrong with it. After test driving and pulling a code like that and a test drive to confirm the complaint, my first thought is, either the intermediate servo has become hard, or the band is not adjusted correctly. I adjust the band to 10ft/lbs and back of one and half. While I have it on the lift, I will hang a pressure gauge off the trans. Take it for another ride, monitor the shift, and check the pressures in all ranges. If the band adj fixed it, then great. If not, make certain the pressure does not drop off due to a bad gasket, warped VB, etc. If the pressures are up, I will pop the servo cover off and inspect the molded seal. If it is hard, drop in a new one, they are super cheap, and test drive again. If that does not fix it, it is time to pull the pan, test the solenoid, valves, inspect gaskets, etc. If the band was not anchored, good luck getting second gear at all, let alone a slip 80% of the time.

As far as the post that recommended get a complete price before anyone touched the transmission.... How is anyone going to know what parts need to be replaced without a "remove, dismantle, and inspect"? There is no crystal ball to see every thrust washer and bearing, pump condition, sprags, etc. IMHO, the best way to have a transmission replaced is to have a shop tear it down and clean it up. Bring you in to go over the condition of each part, and replace/repair as needed. That way you know the all of the parts in your trans are in top shape. Or, you could by a trans from an internet repair shop and hope the shop replaced the parts that should have been replaced. 12,001 miles and you are out of a warranty.

 

[Glacier991]

Welcome to the site. It is a pleasure to have a professional on here, with your vast wealth of knowledge. Thanks for chiming in and adding your experience.

I hope you will stay and provide a vantage point to our discourse here.

I'll look forward to more posts from you!

Chris (Glacier991)