Please help me find out whats wrong!!

[rock883]

Ok, I have been wasting money left and right on stuff that ends up not helping my truck run at all. Ik, first I replaced my battery cables, and that still didn't help, and then I was told that the starter solenoid was probably bad. Well, that didn't do it either, and I took the day off of work today to try and get it fixed. Please help me figure out what in the world is wrong with my explorer!!

If you need to know, it is just making a tick when I try to start it. I can't egt it started at all. I have the bettery charging right now, so I will see about that later. But please tell me what it is. Thanks

 

[Kris Guilbeaux]

Is it clicking only one time when you turn the key... Have you Replaced the Starter itself? From what has happend with our Explorers if it clicks one time the it is the starter. If it has a grinding clicking sound it is the battery.

If it was the battery cable or Solenoid I would think the car would make a noise. Never had those go out though. BTW: Every Explorer I have Seen the Starter die a little past 100K

 

[CougarX]

My Explorer did the same thing a few months ago. I temporarily fixed it by shimming the bottom mounting bolt of the starter with a thin washer. Don't ask me why this worked but it did for about a week untill I replaced the starter for good. I havn't had the problem since.
All you have to do until you get a new starter is loosen the top bolt and remove the bottom bolt and then add a washer in between the starter and bellhousing (not the starter and bolt) and then tighen everything down. If you have the same problem I did this will work. I would still replace the starter though since this mod leaves an opening between the starter and bellhousing for water to enter.
This may sound strange but it did work for me. Anybody got any ideas why? Hope this helps.

 

[rock883]

Yeah Kris, it is just making a tick, just one. So you think it is the starter itself, not just the solenoid? Are the starters available by themselve w/o the solenoid for cheaper, cause I did just replace the solenoid and all. Well, about the starter going out just past, I am well past the 100K mark, around 152K.

Thanks for the help cougar, but I am probably going to go down to AutoZone and ask if the starter is the problem, and just go ahead and replace it now, I need to get my car running, I am missing it. This sucks, I am spending way too much money on this.

Oh and I checked the battery, but it didn't do a thing, and I thin it is fine. It only took about a half hour to take the starter out, so I may take my mom's car down to AutoZone, and get the starter and try putting it in tonight.

 

[Ira]

Rock,

Had a similar problem with mine. I even took the starter off and jumped it directly to the battery and it would turn over. When I re-installed it, it would work a couple of times and then quit. If I would turn the shaft on the starter a little by hand and then hit the key, it would crank. Found the problem to be a bad brush inside the motor. I took it to the starter shop and they were too busy to change out the brush card (all 4 motor brushes on a plastic plate) so I bought it and put it in myself. Total cost...$16.00...total time installing...20 minutes, except for removing the starter 2-3 times before realizing what it was. I did check the bushings and everything while in the starter and also greased it internally.

That was over 6 months ago, and no more problems.

 

[gijoecam]

That's the cheapest way to go... the only trick is making sure you get it back together with the brushes intact. Lots of people tend to crush the brushes in the process of reassembly. As long as the armature bushings are good at both ends, replacing the brushes fixes about 95% of the problems.

Back to the original problem... a single click with voltage at the starter means a bad starter... Bet'cha dollars to doughnuts. If it's getting juice, it's possible it's not getting enough current, but if that was the case, the connection that wasn't letting the juice through (i.e. high resistance due to poor connection) would get REALLY hot. Replacing the battery and cables usually eliminates this as a possibility.

Keep us posted.

 

[mike91]

If its not the starter, its definitely the cables - they are probably not clean enough to get the full voltage from the battery.

 

[rock883]

Thanks Ira, I may have to do that because I just spent $75 on a battery and it still didn't work, and $16 isn't that bad, compared to over $100 for the starter. I may go this route.

GiJoe, when you said that it will get really hot, I am assuming that you mean the terminal is hot. My positive cable before was doing this, it would get very hot and I burned myself on the battery.

Mike, I already changed the cables, that was the first thing I changed. Then the solenoid, and now the battery, I am EXTREMELY pissed.

Ira, how hard is it to change the brushes? Is it in the Haynes manual?? I will look for that tonight.

 

[Ira]

Rock,

It is not very difficult to do. You just have to be slightly mechanically inclined. From what I remember, there are only 2 screws/bolts that hold the starter housing together. It is best to mark a reference line on each section of the housing so that you can line it back up. Be careful when putting it back together and don't crush the brushes. I have had several different electric motors apart since then, but if I remember correctly, you can put the brush card in and hold the brushes apart and put the armature in before putting it all back in the housing. When you do put it back in the housing, be prepared for the magnet to try and grab it. Also, be sure to put the teflon washers/shims back in place and don't let them fall out. Also, be sure to put a little high temp grease in the bushings while you are in there.

Good luck.

 

[slow-demon]

One thing you could try that is quick and rather funny is "bang" on the starter with a hammer. Sometimes but not always the starter could start working again. What happens is when you hit the starter the brushes get jarred loose and the starter may start working again. Takes only a few seconds so give it a try. If it does start, I would still replace the starter as the brushes are probably worn out. This trick also works when you have power window motors that stop working. Hit the window motor with a hammer and the motor starts working again.

 

[sphaugh]

slow-d. thanks for the real world solution. one question: what are the chances that solution is in Ford's Quality Care database?? LMAO

 

[rock883]

Ok, here's what I have done so far. I went down to a shop to ask them what the problem was. I told him that when I pulled the starter, the gear was able to turn, and I told him everyhitng I replaced. I told him that I only got one click when I turned the key, and then he told me that it is probably the solenoid on the fender. I went and got that part, it was only $6.00 and hooked it up and everyhting. Still won't work. I did go to AutoZone and get a starter, and I hooked it up and let it sit on the ground and tried to turn the key to see what would happen, it didn't turn at all. Then that is when I got the relay. But, I am now thinking it is a combo of the starter and the relay?? Do you think that would be it? I am gonna go buy another starter (I returned the other one after I tried it and it didn't do anything) and put it in and keep it out and see if it will turn with the new relay in. Hopefully. If not, my brother in-law is over for the day and he has his dodge work truck over here and I will put the starter back in and he is gonna pull me out of the driveway and I am gonna try and roll start it (I guess thats what you call it, I have a 5spd) where you hold the clutch in, turn the key, put it in gear, let it roll, then release the clutch, and get it started like that and take it somewhere to get it fixed.

 

[brianb9]

New starter

Hey Rock,

If you end up having to replace the starter don't buy another Ford or some rebuilt unit. Get a Mean Green Starter they are absolutely bullet proof and come with enough mounting options to fit just about any vehicle. They are also superior in terms of torque, starting power and durability. They have been written up many times in the mags and I don,t think the cost is unreasonable. If you can't find one let me know and I can send or post there info from one of my 4wheel mags.

Hope this helps,
Brian

 

[rock883]

I have heard that they are $250, I think I will pass and just buy a $100 one from AutoZone or soemthin. As long as it starts up my car, then it is good. Plus I have already spent too much money on trying to get my car running and $250 is too much for me.

 

[Ira]

Red neck starter test

Rock,

When you tried the starter with it laying on the ground, did you connect a heavy ground wire from either the ground of the battery or the truck frame to the housing of the starter? It should then crank over, when you turn the key.

Something you could try with your old starter (and I would have before spending money on a new starter), take it off the truck, lay it on the ground, and connect a set of jumper cables to the battery, and the starter. Put the positive cable on the large post of the starter and clip the black/ground cable to the starter housing (mounting flange). Get a short piece of wire and touch one end to the large positive starter post while touching the other end to the smaller post of the battery...Just be sure to HOLD ON TO THE STARTER. In the event it is good, the starter should turn over, but the starting torque will cause it to jump or try to roll over. If it does not turn over, take one of the battery cables loose and turn the bendix (gear on the end of the starter) about 1/2 turn and then reconnect and try it again. This is what I did when I found the brushes were bad. It would turn over sometimes, but when it didn't, I could turn the gear and then it would turn. One of the brushes was worn so much that it did not make contact with the armature (commutator strips or copper strips in the starter).

If it still doesn't want to crank, I would start with a voltmeter and work my way from the starter back to the battery and key switch, etc. until you find where the voltage is lost. You should have 12+ volts on the large post at all times. On the smaller post, you should only have 12+ volts when the key is turned all the way to the start position.

Another possibility is a fusible link in the engine to starter harness. I am not sure whether it has one or not. Maybe someone else can tell you for sure.

I did not mean to offend you or anything by being so simple in my explanation. I just do not know what your mechanical experience is. I hope you understand.



[Edited by Ira on 10-07-2000 at 09:18 PM]

 

[rock883]

Hey, no offense taken at all, the easier the better. I am gonna have to do that "redneck test" tomorrow. I didn't get to do anything today to my truck, it was sort of cold out today (lower 40's) and I didn't feel like doing anything. But I will definitely do that tomorrow. But I did, however, pull the starter out from under the car and pulled the back of the starter off to see where the brushes were and all. I didn't really want to start pulling stuff apart though and didn't really see inside the starter, but to do the brushes do you remove that whole round part behind that flange? I didn't want to mess it up, so I put it back together before I did mess it up. But thanks for the explanation, I will tell you how it goes tomorrow. But if it doesn't go well, my dad should be back, and I will throw the starter back in and have him pull my explorer (w/his suburban) to some place to get it fixed. I am gonna do it late at night, so the cops (if they see me) will just think I am trailing close to him. I just pulled my tow hooks off too because I was putting my brush guard on and they were in the way. So I will have to figure out a way to do this. Any ideas?

 

[rock883]

Well, I am sick of tired of working on this problem, and maiking runs to and from AutoZone to ask them what they think it is and buying parts that don't even help it to start up, so I am gonna talk to my parents tomorrow and I think they have AAA so they tow for free up to 3 miles, and I am gonna get them to tow the 'splorer on down to Goodyear (don't want to go to Firestone, hey if their tires are bad, what else might be bad, ya know? )and have Goodyear take a look at it and get it fixed and running. Hopefully they don't screw me like they did last time, when I bought some rotors from Kris on here and put them on and I took it to them to check it out cause I heard a little squeel, and I had to replace the pads, and rotors, even thoguh I just had changed them. Well, on that thoght, maybe I will take it somewhere else, there is another place here that is locally owned and operated, and have heard retty good things about it, so maybe I will try them out and see how they are (service, and price wise). But thanks for you guys' help, I appreciate it, but I am just sick and tired of replacing things that don't help, I don't have one of those money trees like Rick does . I will tell you guys what the problem was when I get it fixed. n Oh and I checked the oil the other day, cause some guy told me my engine could have seized up, which frightened me, and I had plenty of oil in there, so that wasn't the problem.

 

[rock883]

Ok, I had my dad pull me up the driveway with his suburban today, I unhooked the strap, and rolled down, popped the clutch and wabbaaam, it started up. First time in more than a week. Well, my guages were kinda messed up. (I had my alarm taken out a few weeks ago and the guy pulled a crap load of wires...well, non of the guages worked after that, and then I left it with him and he got it fixed and everything was back to normal) well, now the oil pressure was reading wayyyy past the red mark, the temp. was wayyyy past the read mark, and my voltage guage was extremely low, my gas guage was probably the same as before half way, and my tach worked fine, and the speedo did too, but the otheres were messed up, i know they were. My dad followed me to pick me up from the place I dropped it off at, and he said he didn't see any smoke or anything out of the normal. Well, after I pulled the keys out to drop the car off, I tried starting it and it wouldn't start. I left it there for them to work on tomorrow, and my parents are going to pick it up and drop it off at school for me.

 

[Kris Guilbeaux]

My friends EB had this Problem too... Guess why the Car would not start after the Alarm was Removed... The Remains of the Alarm was not letting the Starter start the motor. Since most Alarms have a starter Kill if the Alarm is Removed or Wires cut to shut the Alarm off the Starter kill will not let the Car start. They had to find the wireing the Was not letting the Car start and Remove it.

 

[rock883]

That might be it, but what would explain me being able to start it all those times after I got it taken out until last week when I couldn't start it at all? Weird stuff. Maybe there are some bare wires that are thouching each other and with them touching it will make it unable to start and maybe they just got stuck together. Sounds stupid, but hey, I would like to think it is something as simple as that. And that coud possbly explain the whole guage deal. Oh well, I will find out tomorrow after school whats wrong.