rough idle can i check timing

[Stick4503]

I have a 2004 Explorer 4.0 sohc with rough idle. I have reason to believe the timing might be off. How can i check for correct timing without removing the valve covers?

Timing light, compression test, anything?

Thanks

 

[Stick4503]

Sorry my phone froze and posted this a second time.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Nope. does it sound like a diesel?

 

[Stick4503]

No but it shakes like a washing machine off balance. If left long enough the check engine light flashes.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Pull the codes, see whats going on.

 

[Stick4503]

I can't drive it to the shop to get codes. Working on getting a code reader.

 

[2000StreetRod]

which timing?

I have a 2004 Explorer 4.0 sohc with rough idle. I have reason to believe the timing might be off. How can i check for correct timing without removing the valve covers?

Timing light, compression test, anything?

Thanks

Do you want to check the ignition timing or the camshaft timing?

If the camshaft timing is significantly off the compression will reflect it. Check at least one cylinder in each bank.

 

[Stick4503]

This is lengthy post. I am sorry but need help and wanted to give as much info as possible.

These are only the first frames of a live scan. At idle then attempting to drive, almost won’t go. Do they help anyone? I am attempting to look these all up.

Vehicle is a 2004 explorer 4.0 sohc flex fuel. 4 door 4x4.

Beginning of problem. Ran hot on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Cooled off refilled with water ran fine home.

Began running rough 6 weeks or so later. Codes were multi misfire and misfire on #4 .

Pulled #4 plug found coolant. Chemical test of exhaust gasses was positive.

Attempted to use Blue Devil head gasket repair. Pour and go type.

Ran fine around town and local divided highways. Chemical test now negative.

A week later on Thanksgiving Day ran fine for 50 minutes getting to the interstate. Once on interstate at 70 mph for 10 minutes ran hot. Refill with water and removed thermostat in case it was stuck due to Blue Devil, it did not appear to be stuck, normal temp around the area for 45 minutes without thermostat, back on the interstate 5 minutes ran hot. Refilled again drove home on 2 lane road 50 minutes no overheating.

Runs fine around town for 2-3 days then back to the interstate. Ran fine for 50 minutes to the interstate then, you guessed it ran hot at the exact same point.
Got it back home no water in # 4, nothing in any cylinder.
Did compression test on cold engine because I wanted to pull the water pump afterwards.
All cylinders at least 130 none differ more that 10%.
Leak down test #4 air in coolant. No water in cylinder, recheck for water next day none. During leak down test on cylinder #5 , I had trouble getting cylinder to DTC apparently because when pressure was applied the engine turned backwards. Attempted again and it turned backwards again, so at this point it stopped trying.
Now when I say it turned backwards the cylinder just pretty much was pushed down. The belt only moved a few inches. Each retest the engine was only turned clockwise back around to the TDC compression for the cylinder tested. Never turned by me counterclockwise.
Was going to give Blue Devil Professional type a chance. Flushed coolant system good. Pulled water pump to check for impeller damage or other issues. Pump was good. Put in Blue Devil cranked it up and right from the start it runs like S**T. Way worse than it ever has before.
Codes now are random misfire, misfire on #1 ,2, 4 and 5 I think.



Idle:

Module:$7E8

======================================

Live Data:

Live Data 1/28 frame

Number of DTCs stored in this ECU 3

Fuel system 1 status CL

Fuel System 2 status --

Calculated LOAD Value(%) 21.2

Engine Coolant Temperature(¡ãF) 138.2

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1(%) 7.8

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1(%) 7.8

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2(%) 0.8

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2(%) 11.7

Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(psi) 5.8

Engine RPM(rpm) 1114

Vehicle Speed Sensor(mph) 0

Ignition Timing Advance for #1 Cylinder(¡ã) 19.0

Intake Air Temperature(¡ãF) 62.6

Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow(lb/s) 0.02

Absolute Throttle Position(%) 15.7

Location of Oxygen Sensors B1S12--B2S12--

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 1(V) 0.060

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 1(%) 10.9

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 2(V) 0.870

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 2(%) 99.2

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 1(V) 0.710

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 1(%) 3.1

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 2(V) 0.785

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 2(%) 99.2

OBD requirements to which vehicle is designed OBDII

Time Since Engine Start(sec) 39

Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(miles) 1

Fuel Rail Pressure relative to manifold vacuum(psi) 39.1

Commanded EGR(%) 0.0

EGR_Error(%) -0.0

Commanded Evaporative Purge(%) 41.2

Fuel Level Input(%) 0.0

Number of warm-ups since diagnostic trouble codes cleared 0

Distance since diagnostic trouble codes cleared(miles) 1

Evap System Vapor Pressure(inH2o) -0.55

Barometric Pressure(psi) 14.7

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 1(¡ãF) 735.0

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 2(¡ãF) 735.0

Control module voltage(V) 14.373

Absolute Load Value(%) 16.5

Commanded Equivalence Ratio 0.999

Relative Throttle Position(%) 2.4

Ambient air temperature(¡ãF) 46.4

Absolute Throttle Position B(%) 14.5

Accelerator Pedal Position D(%) 20.0

Accelerator Pedal Position E(%) 28.6

Accelerator Pedal Position F(%) 18.4

Commanded Throttle Actuator Control(%) 3.5


Attempting to drive:

Live Data:

Live Data 1/28 frame

Number of DTCs stored in this ECU 3

Fuel system 1 status CL

Fuel System 2 status --

Calculated LOAD Value(%) 45.1

Engine Coolant Temperature(¡ãF) 138.2

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1(%) 2.3

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1(%) -0.0

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2(%) 6.2

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2(%) -3.1

Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(psi) 9.3

Engine RPM(rpm) 2039

Vehicle Speed Sensor(mph) 13

Ignition Timing Advance for #1 Cylinder(¡ã) 35.5

Intake Air Temperature(¡ãF) 68.0

Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow(lb/s) 0.07

Absolute Throttle Position(%) 23.1

Location of Oxygen Sensors B1S12--B2S12--

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 1(V) 0.115

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 1(%) 0.8

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 2(V) 0.835

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 2(%) 99.2

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 1(V) 0.130

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 1(%) 10.1

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 2(V) 0.135

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 2(%) 99.2

OBD requirements to which vehicle is designed OBDII

Time Since Engine Start(sec) 145

Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(miles) 1

Fuel Rail Pressure relative to manifold vacuum(psi) 39.2

Commanded EGR(%) 41.6

EGR_Error(%) -7.0

Commanded Evaporative Purge(%) 0.0

Fuel Level Input(%) 0.0

Number of warm-ups since diagnostic trouble codes cleared 0

Distance since diagnostic trouble codes cleared(miles) 1

Evap System Vapor Pressure(inH2o) -0.41

Barometric Pressure(psi) 14.7

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 1(¡ãF) 750.9

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1,Sensor 2(¡ãF) 750.9

Control module voltage(V) 14.144

Absolute Load Value(%) 38.4

Commanded Equivalence Ratio 0.999

Relative Throttle Position(%) 8.2

Ambient air temperature(¡ãF) 46.4

Absolute Throttle Position B(%) 26.3

Accelerator Pedal Position D(%) 29.0

Accelerator Pedal Position E(%) 35.7

Accelerator Pedal Position F(%) 25.1
Commanded Throttle Actuator Control(%) 12.5

 

[TechGuru]

That crap is just a temp fix and temp it was. Time for a rebuild/replace.

 

[2000StreetRod]

compression is low

Good compression would be around 180 psi. Was the throttle plate wide open?

What do the plugs look like? Do they look like they've been exposed to coolant?

Did you have water or coolant in the block when you had the second exhaust gas analysis? Maybe the head gasket was leaking but the coolant was so diluted that it couldn't be detected.

 

[Stick4503]

Throttle was opened as gas pedal was depressed. It has electric throttle no cable so maybe not. It was a cold engine test. I did check somewhat warm and got 150 psi.

Plugs looked good as far as the part in the block. # 4, 5, and 6 all had cracked porcelain insulators. Part that is in the plug cable boot. Now these plugs had been in and out a dozen times this last week or so. I could have cracked them. Two had cracks length wise from top to nut. One had crack at the nut. Have undamaged replacements in now without change.

All chemical test have been with water in block. It is the blue liquid in suction tube test. Not sure if this really works on this type closed system. No radiator cap only plastic tank.

 

[2000StreetRod]

ignition timing

I have a 2004 Explorer 4.0 sohc with rough idle. I have reason to believe the timing might be off. How can i check for correct timing without removing the valve covers?

Timing light, compression test, anything?

Thanks

Ignition timing is controlled by the PCM based on information received from the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor. It can't be changed except by changing the tune calibration constants. A timing light will work but will trigger on each engine revolution because you have a waste spark ignition system. There are three coils in the coilpack and spark plugs are paired. When one plug fires on the compression stroke its pair fires on the exhaust stroke. A faulty CKP sensor can result in misfires. You might try disconnecting/reconnecting the connector a few times to clean the contacts. My guess is that your coolant leaks are causing your misfires.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Time to start shopping for an engine from a wreck.