Ruptured Brake Line

[Bob Explorer 200]

I had my 2002 2WD jacked up in my garage a few days ago when the jack slipped off the frame and ruptured the brake line. I should have been more careful and bent over to make a visual check but my back problems have been a major issue for some years and, by the time I decided to lower the truck that day, I was sore enough to get foolishly careless.

Anyway, the people at Advanced Auto kindly provided me the loan of a flaring tool (with a $$$ deposit, of course) along with my purchase of replacement line section and brass coupling units. Can any of you folks give me any info on possible problems or pitfalls I might run into in the process? Do I have to drain the system first? Is the line fairly flexible so I can bend it a bit during the process and can I use a hacksaw to make the cuts? Also, I'm assuming I'll have to bleed that wheel's brake piston in order to purge it of air. Am I right on that? Haven't bled a brake in many years and I don't think I ever have on a disc brake. Is there a sticky or some other source in these forums that can give me the info on bleeding? I tried searching but couldn't find much.

As always, any help here will be really appreciated. I've relied upon the expertise of the good people here several times in the past few years and it's been my salvation with this truck. Thanks up front.

Bob

 

[bizzs]

I just replaced a caliper that had completely blown the piston out and all of the fluid drained. The only obstacle that I ran into was air in the line. I bled the lines the old fashion way and the pedal seemed spongy to me. (You need 2 people do perform this function by pumping the brake pedal until it is hard. Open the bleeder starting with the rear passenger side until the pedal drops to the floor. Instruct your buddy not to let the pedal back up until you close that bleeder valve, or air will enter back into the line. Continue until you notice that a steady stream of brake fluid excretes. Continue on with this procedure doing the passenger rear side, rear driver side. front passenger side and finally the driver side.

Just for kicks, I hooked up my snap on solus and found an icon used for bleeding the brakes for my 2003. The abs was sent to the home position and all the air was bled out. The brake pedal feels great. I hope this helps out.

Bizzs

 

[Number4]

Good luck flaring the brake line. In my experience the flared portion will split. Don't know if anyone else knows the trick. It's also going to be difficult to flare next to the frame. If you could get one from a wrecking yard, you'd be better off.

Harbor Freight sells a vacuum bleeding gun. I've purchased one but have yet to use it. Previously, I've always just pumped the breaks etc.... Vacuum gun would be far more accurate.

 

[name420420]

could always use compression fittings aswell. some ppl will say blah blah not on break line's blah blah. but I work @ a used car dealer and never once had any problems from using them. as number 4 said flairing near the frame will be tough. can't bend them line's to much or they will just break anyways.

 

[Mr Dubya]

Flaring (and double-flaring) brake lines borders on being an art itself more than a mechanical skill. It can be done well of course, and I usually recommend to folks that they try it out and get good at it - it's a worthwhile technique to have.

That being said, a quality flare (being tricky enough as it is) can pose a challenge if you're limited to space (being next to the frame).

If you're looking for an easy compromise, I would recommend the following:

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1) Allow any remaining leaking brake fluid to deposit into a container. There is no need to extract or remove any fluid in the system - you will have to bleed it anyways, thus evacuating any air regardless.

2) Remove the ruptured brake line from the brake hose fitting, to use as a template.

3) Measure the length of the ruptured brake line.

4) Use a pipe cutting tool (for a clean cut) to cut the new line, matching the length of the ruptured line. Avoid using a hacksaw - the burrs on the line may compromise a quality seal within the fittings. Here is the effective, tiny, and easy-to-use pipe cutter that I have and use often.

5) Flare one end of the new line, taking your time.

6) Carefully shape the new line to match that of the old, with your thumbs. Make gentle, wide bends. Do not kink the line.

7) Ensure that the end of the ruptured brake line - still connected to the vehicle - has a clean cut end. Use the pipe cutter if necessary.

8) Use a compression fitting to join the two non-flared ends, and ensure a secure fit.

8.1) The automotive community is divided on the efficacy and safety of compression fittings. My view is that of a compromise - for light-duty, non-racing or non-offroading applications, they can be a reasonable alternative if done right. I have used them here and there, with no issues down the line. However, if the time, resources, and skill provide it - flared lines should be the preferred alternative, and I primarily use them as the proper method. Avoid them for more intense applications, where high-pressure and high-temperature brake fluid scenarios can arise, and stick to the real flaring.

9) Connect the newly-flared section to the brake hose fitting.

10) Bleed the line, topping off the fluid (now might be a good time to do a fluid-flush on the whole system if you're reservoir or line fluid looks a bit mucky. It's cheap, simple, and fast when done right, and ensures the system will remain uncompromised from the inside, out).

11) Acquire a Belgian-style (or authentic Belgian) wheat ale and consume immediately.

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-Dubya

 

[Bob Explorer 200]

Thanks guys. When you say compression fitting, do you mean this type:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...ake-lines/_/N-25nn?itemIdentifier=846246_0_0_

or this type:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...ake-lines/_/N-25nn?itemIdentifier=511745_0_0_

I'm guessing it would be the first. They evidently compress around the tubing when you tighten the collar nuts, is that right?

 

[Mr Dubya]

Here is the compression fitting concept. You're brake lines will very likely be 3/16" lines (confirm this, even though I'm very sure), so you want a compression fitting for that sized line. The auto stores will disclaim that their compression fittings are not for use with brake lines, which touches upon my earlier post on the controversy in the industry. Regardless, if you're looking for that fix for your light application, then go for it.

The compression fitting consists of a coupler, two ferrules (which are the 'compressing' component), and two collar nuts.


-Dubya


EDIT: A kit for the whole coupling assembly should be available. You should not need to buy the individual components separately.

 

[name420420]

what dubya said. I am 99% sure it's gonna be 3/16 aswell most are. go to an autozone etc just ask them what size your break line is. your probly gonna need to add some line anyways to replace where it's broken. then tell them u need compression fitting's that size. they might say blah blah not for break line's blah blah blah.

 

[Number4]

It seems that in inspection states, they will warrant a fail.

 

[Mr Dubya]

Some states may indeed consider those fittings to warrant a fail. Good consideration.

They are not the best solution, and I don't advise them for those who want to do a full quality job. However they can be useful for the budget concerned and as as short or mid-term fix.

 

[Carguy3J]

could always use compression fittings aswell. some ppl will say blah blah not on break line's blah blah. but I work @ a used car dealer and never once had any problems from using them. as number 4 said flairing near the frame will be tough. can't bend them line's to much or they will just break anyways.

WOW. That's exactly why used car dealers are often thought of as scumbags. That your boss would allow you to do such a stupid thing pretty much says it all for their business ethics/morals.:fire:

Compression fittings are ok for fuel lines. They work at no more then about 65-70psi, tops. BRAKE (NOT "break") lines can see pressure spikes nearing 2,000 psi, during an all-out panic stop, and can see 500-1,000psi during normal everyday routine stops. (yes, I meant two thousand- not a typo - 2,000 POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH!!!!!!!!)
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-system-and-upgrade-selection - 3rd paragraph down.

Sure there are industrial/specialized compression fittings that are designed to handle that, but not anything you'll be putting on car.

First of all, using compression fittings on brake lines is ILLEGAL. It violates Federal safety standards. Second, just because it hasn't bit you, or any of your unlucky customers yet, doesn't mean it won't. You could very well be the cause of a fatal accident, along with all the legal and financial liability that comes with it. It is absolutely unacceptable for a supposedly "professional" mechanic to take that kind of risk with other peoples' safety. If/when one of these ticking time bombs you, and your employer, put on the road fails, you will be seriously screwed. If it results in a fatal accident, you could even go to jail, for involuntary manslaughter or something similar.

To address your last comment, of course you can't bend a line like a pretzel, but lines that small are fairly flexible, unless rotted/rusted beyond safe use. If simply trying to bend the line a little results in it "breaking" or snapping, then it needed to be replaced anyway.

 

[Carguy3J]

To the OP: Do NOT use compression fittings on your brakes. It is against the law, and a possible catastrophic failure waiting to happen.

The flaring tool should have instructions with it. If not, google it. Have a little extra lin eto "play" with for practice, until you get the hang of it. Also, just make SURE they gave you a double flare tool, as I believe they also have a single flare tool, but that it not acceptable for brake lines. Brake lines, must be double flared.

As I mentioned in my last post above, if the "old" line is crumbling or threatening to break/fall apart when you try to handle it or bend it slightly, then it also needs to be replaced as far "back" as needed until you get to "good" existing line. Its possible you may need to replace a much larger section then just where the initial break occurred. If so, then that's just the way it is. Do it right.

And yes, most likely the line is 3/16"

 

[name420420]

omg the spelling police have arrived. and thanx for calling me a scumbag I love you aswell. the man asked for some input and was givin some input. as with anything else you do yourself it's at your own risk. where you come in calling ppl name's etc is bullshit 100%. if you want to know the true about the line it should be fully replaced front to rear.again he asked for basically a quick/easy fix we gave answer's.

 

[BigRondo]

I'm gonna have to ask that this thread stays on topic and does not stray.

Thanks. :biggthump

 

[Mr Dubya]

omg the spelling police have arrived. and thanx for calling me a scumbag I love you aswell. the man asked for some input and was givin some input. as with anything else you do yourself it's at your own risk. where you come in calling ppl name's etc is bullshit 100%. if you want to know the true about the line it should be fully replaced front to rear.again he asked for basically a quick/easy fix we gave answer's.

The point is that compression fittings should not be purported as a long-term, safe, and quality fix. And certainly nothing that a car dealership or shop should be condoning or installing - that's the truth, and nothing short of it.