should i cut my losses. Rear chain

[janolsson]

For those of you that have read (and replied with help) to my previous threads about my recent woes i appologise as this post might be a bit of a ramble for full disclosure of events.

Initially i had my front chains done by a mechanic but he couldn't get the upper sump to seal. So i took out the engine and while sorting out the sump i did the rear chain stuff. Whilst reinstalling the engine i didn't have the Torque converter seated properly and tried to pull the 2 together before i decided it wasn't right. After doing it properly i put everything back together but when running i had a rythmical rattle around the bell housing.
This week i took the transmission out and spinning the TC around it feels smooth and fluid is being pumped. So i took a look at the flexplate and turning the engine 180 degrees there is a difference in a measurement at the same point to the block. So today i planned to take off the plate and the collar to check for trueness.

Then is where i came across another prob. i needed to turn the crank to fit the locking tool to hold it to undo the flexplate but it jammed. This made me remember the the way the engine came to a bit of a rattling halt the last time i turned it off before removing the tranny. So i removed the left rocker cover to find the new rear chain i fitted had snapped.

Now i have moved this chain i can turn the crank by hand so i may have been lucky and not done any valve or piston damage.

Is this wishful thinking or does anyone have experience of rebuilding ex engines with snapped chain???

I'm getting to the point where i'm thinkin of breaking the car to recover some of my costs so far. Tho i might take the engine out this week and redo the rear chain and have a look at the flexplate and collar. I may as well as the engine is ready to come out now. I don't want to pull the head tho.

What would you do???
Would be a shame to break as otherwise its in good shape but i can't afford another engine.

Ta

 

[chrisquelch]

engine

hi jan can do you a engine for £100 if you can collect.

 

[janolsson]

OK so i have calmed down now and stopped kicking the tyres of the old girl.
After a chat with chrisq my plan of action is to pull the motor and do the rear chain (put the old one back on as it didn't appear to have any wear) and do a compression check before reinstall. Just hoping the valves are all ok. Tho i still may need to replace the flexplate and/or collar.

Ho hum more time in the garage. I'm gonna have to wallpaper and fit central heating if i spend much more time in there.
Regards

 

[rich uk]

Sorry to hear that mate , you have put a LOT of effort / time into your Ex
I can only imagine it would be a shame not to see the job through now and finish it....
the flexplate .. i bent one also fitting a trans so know what its like to have to do that twice .... but now its all been apart should be a much easyer job to disassemble / refit
hope you keep going mate
Rich

 

[janolsson]

Thanks for that rich
Good to hear that it is possibble to bend the flexplate as the two tranny guys i spoke to said very unlikely and more likely the pump in the tranny.
As i said above i'm gonna have a go, i'm just worried that the sprocket on the rear slipped causing a mistime and had major interference that snapped the chain. Time and a little more effort will show!
Now where can i borrow a compression tester mmmm...

 

[janolsson]

Why the chain broke

So today i pulled the engine out.
When i took the jackshaft bolt out it appears slightly bent ??? New one to be ordered.
The guide had broken at the point the tensioner contacts. The casting is a poor one. Whether this is the cause or the result who knows. The chain itself looks a lot lower quality than the old one so that won't have helped. I'm just wondering if i didn't have the jackshaft sprocket seated properly but in my mind it would have slipped straight away if so. Enough of the post mortem.
For the rear guide the half that is broken is ok on my old one so i will frankenstein it to make a whole good one. I will also put the old chain and sprockets back on as there was nothing wrong with them just the guide.
Now i need to search for the correct cam lobe position at 1 TDC as i don't want to get it 180 out.
Gonna take some picks if i can find the camera.
Wish me luck
Regards

 

[rich uk]

wow fast work ...
hope it all works out

 

[janolsson]

wow fast work ...
hope it all works out

Ta
Yes the mood took me. As the tranny was out and the exhausts off anyway it was only an hours work to get the engine out.

Are you back trucking yet or waitin to get your ball joints first?

Anyone with photos of the right cam position @ #1TDC ?
Done a search and can't find one.

 

[jcasey007]

If you need a compression tester I have one you can borrow, I'm only an hour away from Leicester but not around until Thursday.

If it helps I will be coming down the M1 Thursday evening from Leeds.

I have a road trip this week Edinburgh tomorrow, Newcastle then Leeds, Thank you BA

PM me if you want to borrow it

cheers

Jim

 

[2000StreetRod]

Right camshaft slot

I believe the photo below was posted by shelbygt

Notice that the notch is below the centerline of the camshaft and parallel to the valve cover mating surface of the head. Also notice that the camshaft lobes for #1 cylinder are not depressing the valves.

I suggest that you time the left camshaft also since the jackshaft bolt has been removed. The left camshaft protrusion for the camshaft position sensor should be above the centerline of the camshaft and the notch should be below the centerline of the camshaft.

Do you have the special tensioner tool to keep the chain taught when you tighten the camshaft sprocket retaining bolts? The spring force of the tensioner is inadequate to keep the chain taught when tightening. If you don't have the special tensioner tool you can substitute a bolt with a washer and nut to apply tension to the chain while torquing the sprocket bolts.

 

[janolsson]

Thanks streetrod
Thats the info i needed. I didn't realise the slots were below the centreline.
So am i correct:- this is photo of right cam (attached to the jack at the rear of the engine) and the slots have to be below the centre line.
Just clearing up left and right confusion.
Oh and yes got the timing tool kit ta

Jim PM sent

 

[2000StreetRod]

Correct

That's correct, the photo is of the right camshaft taken from the front of the engine. The left camshaft looks identical when looking at it from the rear of the engine. The green arrow in the photo below identifies the correct position of the CMP sensor protrusion.

Good luck with your retiming and installation!

 

[DuncanOfEngland]

Jan

A good way to check for compression is to make sure that both valves on a cylinder are closed and then blow compressed air into the spark plug hole (I use an adaptor made from a sawn off spark plug and a length of rubber tube). If both valves are seated properly, the air will puh the piston down and the crankshaft will rotate; if not, then you will hear air escaping from the inlet or exhaust port, which will indicate that a valve is not seating correctly.

As a final test, when the engine camshaft chains are fitted correctly, turn the crankshaft with a socket and put you thumb over the spark plug hole: you will feel the pressure build up as the piston approaches TDC on the compression stroke. A drop of light oil down the bores might help to seal the piston at the rings. You will need only to rotate the engine a couple of turns to check all six cylinders.

When you fit the rear lower sprocket for the RH cam (where the bolt broke), the correct way to fit it is with wavy inner ring facing you and the circular inner ring against the jackshaft.

Duncan

 

[blueka]

Hope you get it fixed mate, I'm in the middle of a rebuild myself and I've got a snapped bolt that goes onto the roller shaft that runs thru the middle of the block. Have a look at "my pickle registry" in my sig to see the pics if you haven't already.

Good luck

Si

 

[janolsson]

Duncan
Thank you for the tips. Didn't break the bolt just a bit bent ie the head moves up and down when you wind it in or out so got a new one ordered today, picking it up from the dealer tommorrow. Don't have a compresser but have borrowed a compression tester and was gonna bolt up the tranny and use the starter to spin it.

Blueka
All right dude, nuts deep in nuts again?

So to update
as mentioned above got the new bolt on the way and a compression tester in my kitchen. I also have a flexplate on the way from Justin @explorerpartsuk. So in the next couple of days gonna reassemble, time and compression check. Photos and update to come.
Regards to all

 

[rich uk]

Ta
Yes pizza mood took me. As pizza tranny was out and pizza exhausts off anyway it was only an hours work to get pizza vroom vroom out.

Are you back go go wagoning yet or waitin to get your ball joints first?

Anyone with photos of pizza right cam position @ #1TDC ?
Done a search and can't find one.

been rolling ok for a good while now ... got jobs to do as always ...usualy packs up before ford fair lol ..pizza anyone ?

 

[janolsson]

quick update

chain and guides on and timimg set.
Everything spins freely but seems no compression on #1 cylinder.
the spring for one of the valves on #1 is slightly depressed even when the lobe is not on it so i'm assuming a bent valve stopping it seating.
So getting replacement engine at the weekend to throw in for the imte being while i pull the head to assess damage. If its just the valve i will replace and go from there.
regards

 

[blueka]

good luck, get some pictures up!!


Si

 

[janolsson]

good luck, get some pictures up!!


Si

Found the camera this morning and put the battery on charge.
So what pics do you want?
I'm gonna get a pic of the debacle that will be me tryin to get the other engine in the boot of my Saab, I have a plan!

 

[blueka]

I just wanna see what damage you have... if nothing else it'll give us a laugh... just kidding, I hope you get it sorted, you can't beat having a spare engine ready to go, cos you just never know...


Si