Shuddering or thumping when 5r55w shifts,..is there a remedy

[bcolins]

When I got my 2002 explorer last fall, shifts would sometimes take too long, or there would be "flare" during the shift, or, as in the case of the 2-3 shift,....it would fumble around, never quite get 3rd, then engage 4th with a thump........then lots of shuddering when it tried to engage overdrive.

THAT WAS BEFORE I DID THE "SERVO BORE O-RING FIX"

Now, with the modified Servo Bore pistions in place, things are different. I would say, overall, they are improved. There is no longer a fumbled 2-3 shift that ends up thumping into 4th, and there is no longer any sign of engine flare or delayed,....too long shifts.

What I do now have on all gear changes is a bit of a Shudder or "Thumpity" on every single shift. Its fairly faint most of the time. It fell very much like one of the tires just hit a slight bump and the suspension took 2 or 3 small/short cycles to get every thing in check................but,...............its definitely NOT the suspension over bumps.............it is clearly something in the driveline that is happening on each gear shift.

I have an old Mercedes that has a worn/soft center driveshaft support that makes a similar, but more pronounced thumping, when just pulling away from a dead stop under moderate to full throttle,.......but, it never thumps on gear changes,...............just the pulling away from complete stop.

Yes, I did a band adjustment after installing the modified Servo Bore Pistons, actually, I did two. I did one to the specified "Tighten to 120 inch pounds, then back off the adjustment screrw 2 full turns. Then, after reading a post suggesting only turning the band adjustment screw out ONE turn, and another post suggesting turning the band adjustment screw out 1.5 turns,....I decided to turn each adjusting screw in an additional 1/2 turn,....so they would each have been turned out 1.5 turns after torquing to 120 inch pounds.

Any ideas?
Brian in Austin

 

[fusseli]

The o-ring fix isn't a guarantee and it won't necessarily last forever. It sounds like you have the usual servo bore wear that's only fully curable with a bore and sleeve during a rebuild. The only thing I know of that you can do is to verify that your tranny fluid is full and not burned, being under-filled can cause odd issues with shudders in shifts.

 

[bcolins]

The o-ring fix isn't a guarantee and it won't necessarily last forever. It sounds like you have the usual servo bore wear that's only fully curable with a bore and sleeve during a rebuild. The only thing I know of that you can do is to verify that your tranny fluid is full and not burned, being under-filled can cause odd issues with shudders in shifts.

Oh, it was definately burned. I did a partial drain, then pumped in 4 fresh quarts of Mercon 5. Will be doing this a few more times in order to transition from Dark brown/burned ATF to cleaner/redder ATF gradually.

I took a pole of sorts on doing a complete draining and refilling of the entire 12.7 quarts,......and the consensus was leaning more towards doing it gradually or not at all, as a complete change can cause a failure of the tranny. (I did get opinions in both directions)

Yeah, I am aware that the O-Ring fix is a temporary thing and that it's not a guaranteed complete fix.

However, thinking that I have seen something previously indicating that the "shudder" was another unrelated issue.

 

[deaconblues]

Congrats on getting the new servos in. Doesn't sound like it's running too bad!

The bands and clutches probably have suffered for running with the weakly actuating servos and burned fluid. Keep up the drain and fill cycles -4 quarts is only about a third of the fluid, so you might get better shifts in another couple of cycles.

Question- Does it shift better when it's cold? If so, I would suggest trying a thicker atf. I don't know what kind of Mercon V you used, but I'm thinking you might try the Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle which is also Mercon V approved, but has a little higher viscosity. If the higher viscosity helps, you could try the Redline High-temp ATF which is even heavier (and add the Lubeguard Mercon V additive) -I've heard good things about this atf in high-mileage Ford trannies. Given your location (not cold), the viscosity shouldn't be a problem.

Speaking of Lubeguard, you also might try the shudder-fix or Platinum additives -many positive reports (including in my own vehicle).

 

[bcolins]

Congrats on getting the new servos in. Doesn't sound like it's running too bad!

The bands and clutches probably have suffered for running with the weakly actuating servos and burned fluid. Keep up the drain and fill cycles -4 quarts is only about a third of the fluid, so you might get better shifts in another couple of cycles.

Question- Does it shift better when it's cold? If so, I would suggest trying a thicker atf. I don't know what kind of Mercon V you used, but I'm thinking you might try the Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle which is also Mercon V approved, but has a little higher viscosity. If the higher viscosity helps, you could try the Redline High-temp ATF which is even heavier (and add the Lubeguard Mercon V additive) -I've heard good things about this atf in high-mileage Ford trannies. Given your location (not cold), the viscosity shouldn't be a problem.

Speaking of Lubeguard, you also might try the shudder-fix or Platinum additives -many positive reports (including in my own vehicle).

Thanks Deaconblues

 

[HiImBrian]

How long did the fix take you and did you have someone helping you with it?

 

[Limited02]

When I had my transmission rebuilt, I had experienced the same problem (created a thread as well). Shop had no idea as to why it did it and couldn't replicate. It was most noticeable under light acceleration and sometimes very violent.

Ford sent a TSB for the cruise control and after dropping it off and them installing the new wiring harness, the shifts magically improved... On hot days, there will be signs of the shudder, but it's no longer an issue.

 

[bcolins]

When I had my transmission rebuilt, I had experienced the same problem (created a thread as well). Shop had no idea as to why it did it and couldn't replicate. It was most noticeable under light acceleration and sometimes very violent.

Ford sent a TSB for the cruise control and after dropping it off and them installing the new wiring harness, the shifts magically improved... On hot days, there will be signs of the shudder, but it's no longer an issue.

Is that a formal recall? Wondering if I brought in my 2002 if they would do the cruise wiring harness at no charge.....if it applies.

 

[bcolins]

How long did the fix take you and did you have someone helping you with it?

This may answer some of your questions: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381169

Brian

 

[bcolins]

Congrats on getting the new servos in. Doesn't sound like it's running too bad!

The bands and clutches probably have suffered for running with the weakly actuating servos and burned fluid. Keep up the drain and fill cycles -4 quarts is only about a third of the fluid, so you might get better shifts in another couple of cycles.

Question- Does it shift better when it's cold? If so, I would suggest trying a thicker atf. I don't know what kind of Mercon V you used, but I'm thinking you might try the Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle which is also Mercon V approved, but has a little higher viscosity. If the higher viscosity helps, you could try the Redline High-temp ATF which is even heavier (and add the Lubeguard Mercon V additive) -I've heard good things about this atf in high-mileage Ford trannies. Given your location (not cold), the viscosity shouldn't be a problem.

Speaking of Lubeguard, you also might try the shudder-fix or Platinum additives -many positive reports (including in my own vehicle).

Deacon blues; I've put a few hundred miles on it and done a second pan drain and refill with Castrol Mercon V. What I am noticing is that my shifts are fine with NO SHUDDER WHEN COLD. Once things warm up, I start getting shudder on shifts, and when accelerating, I get thumping, even when it's not shifting,....as if something is engaging for a split second, then disengaging,...very odd.

Brian

 

[Limited02]

Is that a formal recall? Wondering if I brought in my 2002 if they would do the cruise wiring harness at no charge.....if it applies.

Yes, it is a formal recall. I can't say 100% it will change the way your transmission shifts, but for whatever odd reason it did help mine...

Here's some direction:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302002
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262765

 

[deaconblues]

Brian-

The ATF viscosity is higher when cold, so I believe you can improve matters by going with a thicker ATF. The Castrol Merc V has a viscosity of 7.4 cSt at operating temp, Castrol IMV is 8 cSt, and Redline High Temp is 10.0 cSt. I recently added 6 quarts of the redline high temp in mine and noticed immediately quieter, smoother shifts.

I think the thumping/shuddering is in the TC. There is a lockup engagement solenoid you can check, but I think it's probably just that clutches are chattering for having been operating in burned fluid. The thicker atf probably results in less differential slip before lockup, and therefore smoother engagement when lockup engages. I think I also gained 1-2 city mpg because of the reduced slippage. The engine revs less when taking off from a stop, and seems to upshift earlier and downshift less overall with the thicker atf.

I was able to get 6 quarts in on the last drain / fill by restarting the engine and shifting through the gears and revving -after the fluid seemed to have finished draining. I did this about three times and each time another half quart or so came out a minute or so after shutting the motor off.

I also added this:

http://lifeautomotive.com/faqs/#3

This additive is harder to find than the Lubegard products, but I saw somewhere that someone reported that it was more effective at suppressing shudder/chatter so I tracked down some.

You and I seem to be going down the same road to eliminate shudder/thumpy shifts -this is what has worked for me. Once in a while under high throttle I will get a thump into 5th gear OD, but that's it. Good shifts otherwise, no flares, no codes. Good luck Brian!

Alan

 

[bcolins]

Brian-

The ATF viscosity is higher when cold, so I believe you can improve matters by going with a thicker ATF. The Castrol Merc V has a viscosity of 7.4 cSt at operating temp, Castrol IMV is 8 cSt, and Redline High Temp is 10.0 cSt. I recently added 6 quarts of the redline high temp in mine and noticed immediately quieter, smoother shifts.

I think the thumping/shuddering is in the TC. There is a lockup engagement solenoid you can check, but I think it's probably just that clutches are chattering for having been operating in burned fluid. The thicker atf probably results in less differential slip before lockup, and therefore smoother engagement when lockup engages. I think I also gained 1-2 city mpg because of the reduced slippage. The engine revs less when taking off from a stop, and seems to upshift earlier and downshift less overall with the thicker atf.

I was able to get 6 quarts in on the last drain / fill by restarting the engine and shifting through the gears and revving -after the fluid seemed to have finished draining. I did this about three times and each time another half quart or so came out a minute or so after shutting the motor off.

I also added this:

http://lifeautomotive.com/faqs/#3

This additive is harder to find than the Lubegard products, but I saw somewhere that someone reported that it was more effective at suppressing shudder/chatter so I tracked down some.

You and I seem to be going down the same road to eliminate shudder/thumpy shifts -this is what has worked for me. Once in a while under high throttle I will get a thump into 5th gear OD, but that's it. Good shifts otherwise, no flares, no codes. Good luck Brian!

Alan

Alan, are you leaving the drain plug out when you start the engine and move through the gears? or, do you replace the plug, start it, move through the gears, shut it off then drain again?

Also, how do you know how much you have drained out? When I've done the two prior drain and fills, I just overfilled it, started it, removed the small allen screw, let it drain off. But, at $11-12 a guart, I would prefer not to overbuy, then overfill and drain.

 

[deaconblues]

Yes, I'm leaving the drain plug out until I'm ready to refill.

I'm measuring roughly what comes out. When refilling, I add whole quarts until a healthy stream comes out while the engine is running (also shifting through the gears and revving every couple minutes or so during the fill.) At 5 quarts, nothing was coming out (so I had to go and buy another quart of redline), and at 6 quarts I was getting the streaming. I plugged it and called it done at the point. I suppose it might be slightly overfilled some fraction of a quart, but I think this causes no issue especially compared to being underfilled.

 

[bcolins]

Yes, I'm leaving the drain plug out until I'm ready to refill.

I'm measuring roughly what comes out. When refilling, I add whole quarts until a healthy stream comes out while the engine is running (also shifting through the gears and revving every couple minutes or so during the fill.) At 5 quarts, nothing was coming out (so I had to go and buy another quart of redline), and at 6 quarts I was getting the streaming. I plugged it and called it done at the point. I suppose it might be slightly overfilled some fraction of a quart, but I think this causes no issue especially compared to being underfilled.

Where did you find the Redline? I checked Advance Auto, Autozone, and OReilly,......none of them have it, so, I was going to order it from Amazon.

 

[deaconblues]

Is this shop near you?

Austin Performance & Specialty Shop
10716-A North Lamar Blvd.
Austin, TX 78752
(512)832-5566

or

Motormania
10208 Ranch Road 620 N Austin, TX 78726
(512) 331-0877


I got mine at Desert Rat. I don't think you have one near you.

 

[bcolins]

Is this shop near you?

Austin Performance & Specialty Shop
10716-A North Lamar Blvd.
Austin, TX 78752
(512)832-5566

or

Motormania
10208 Ranch Road 620 N Austin, TX 78726
(512) 331-0877


I got mine at Desert Rat. I don't think you have one near you.

Thanks, I'm actually in Cedar Park/Leander, TX. But motormania is only about 20-25 min drive.

 

[RicketyExplorer]

you can also put some lucas in.

 

[bcolins]

Brian-

The ATF viscosity is higher when cold, so I believe you can improve matters by going with a thicker ATF. The Castrol Merc V has a viscosity of 7.4 cSt at operating temp, Castrol IMV is 8 cSt, and Redline High Temp is 10.0 cSt. I recently added 6 quarts of the redline high temp in mine and noticed immediately quieter, smoother shifts.

I think the thumping/shuddering is in the TC. There is a lockup engagement solenoid you can check, but I think it's probably just that clutches are chattering for having been operating in burned fluid. The thicker atf probably results in less differential slip before lockup, and therefore smoother engagement when lockup engages. I think I also gained 1-2 city mpg because of the reduced slippage. The engine revs less when taking off from a stop, and seems to upshift earlier and downshift less overall with the thicker atf.

I was able to get 6 quarts in on the last drain / fill by restarting the engine and shifting through the gears and revving -after the fluid seemed to have finished draining. I did this about three times and each time another half quart or so came out a minute or so after shutting the motor off.

I also added this:

http://lifeautomotive.com/faqs/#3

This additive is harder to find than the Lubegard products, but I saw somewhere that someone reported that it was more effective at suppressing shudder/chatter so I tracked down some.

You and I seem to be going down the same road to eliminate shudder/thumpy shifts -this is what has worked for me. Once in a while under high throttle I will get a thump into 5th gear OD, but that's it. Good shifts otherwise, no flares, no codes. Good luck Brian!

Alan

Alan, it's been a a few weeks, so I thought I would check back with you. What is the status of your prior shudder issue. Still gone?

I have noticed that my tranny shifts flawlessly with no shudder on cooler mornings. So, it does seem to be a heat related issue. Any further thoughts on what you did? Would you still do both the Redline drain and fill and the quart of Transmission fluid Protectant?

Brian

 

[deaconblues]

yup, just piling on the miles. It shifts smoothly in all gears except for the occasional thumpy high speed OD upshift.

going to put 30K on it and then do another 6 qt drain and fill with the redline high temp and another shot of the smart blend additive, which will take me from ~50% to ~75% concentration of this fluid combination. I'm wondering if things will further improve at that point.

what are your plans?