Stalls in Drive (1998 Explorer Sport SOHC)

[TomCat_Ford]

I'm going to swap out the VSS here when the auto parts store gets one in for me. Someone said (as I sated above) that he had a similar problem with a Bronco and the VSS was the culprit. After I found the VSS (it wasn't in the location stated in my support manual... it was on the rear diff... the manual said they didn't move to the rear diff 'till 2000), I took it out and inspected it. A lot of it is discolored (burnt... carbon maybe?). I figure it's worth swapping out, since it's only a $15 part. If it fixes it, great... if not, on to the next thing. The part should be in by the weekend. First they told me they had them in stock... then they found out they didn't... oh well, I had to go into town anyway to get my Craftsman 3/8" drive ratchet replaced (broke it working on the leaf springs last weekend).

 

[my98nnj]

If the VSS was bad it should throw a check engine light and possibly effect trans shfiting.
The ABS system would have issues as well.
I can't see that having anything to do with your stalling issue.
Systems that it applies to are working.

 

[TomCat_Ford]

Point taken. I never paid for the part, so I guess I'll call and cancel. My VSS did have a small dent in the corner, but it doesn't seem to have an affect on the ABS or the speedometer.

I was just talking to someone who had a '98 Explorer a few years back with what sounds to be the exact same issue. He didn't test it in 1 or 2 because he just wanted it fixed ASAP (it is annoying). He took it to Auto Zone and had it scanned. Even though no idiot lights were on on the dash, their scanner said it could be one of three things. He said that they wanted more to install it than it would have cost for just the part, so he installed it himself. He said it was something on the intake manifold, but doesn't remember exactly what it was. Car worked great after he swapped the part out himself. Thoughts?

 

[mikepier]

Point taken. I never paid for the part, so I guess I'll call and cancel. My VSS did have a small dent in the corner, but it doesn't seem to have an affect on the ABS or the speedometer.

I was just talking to someone who had a '98 Explorer a few years back with what sounds to be the exact same issue. He didn't test it in 1 or 2 because he just wanted it fixed ASAP (it is annoying). He took it to Auto Zone and had it scanned. Even though no idiot lights were on on the dash, their scanner said it could be one of three things. He said that they wanted more to install it than it would have cost for just the part, so he installed it himself. He said it was something on the intake manifold, but doesn't remember exactly what it was. Car worked great after he swapped the part out himself. Thoughts?

Could have been the IAC.

 

[TomCat_Ford]

I was referred to a transmission shop here in town. The guy there thinks that, based on the symptoms I had described to him, that it is a solenoid in the transmission that has failed. He says that he stocks four of them at all times and that it is a common problem. They were too busy today and I'm too busy tomorrow, so I'm bringing it back there on Friday to have him diagnose it. He wants to test drive it (it won't need to be driven... all I'll have to do is start it up and put it in drive) and he also wants to hook it up to his diagnostic scanner. The one at a local auto parts store was just a basic no-frills unit that can only read trouble codes. Being that there are no idiot lights on, that scan tool won't do anything.

The diagnosis will be free. He wants to be 100% sure that the problem is what he thinks it is before he sells me any parts... he said that he doesn't want me to get the parts, install them and have the problem persist (then I'd be "mad at him"). To have him do it would cost $200, but he said that it wasn't a very hard job when I asked if I could just get the parts and do it myself.

Do you guys think that could be the issue? He says that if his scan tool says that the tranny solenoids are okay, he will be able to check other things like the IAC voltage and such with his scanner, but he's pretty sure that he's right about the cause (seen it happen many times). I guess the torque converter locks up because a solenoid gets stuck. Thoughts on that? It will be about $35 for the solenoid and whatever it will cost for new fluids and gaskets to fix it.

 

[4x4xbrian.com]

I do not think its a solenoid, if its a trans prob its likely a damaged clutch pack.....however, egr is not a bad idea the dpfe sensor is not greatly accurate it could be sticking (or not seating well) without the computer knowing, It would not bother as bad when cold because the engine runs richer when cold and can compensate more for a stuck egr... its a long shot but possible. Also never say never on a part just because it looks like new. there are different iacs even though they look the same they may not be interchangeable. you say it looks like it was recently changed did they get the right one?

 

[TomCat_Ford]

How would I know if it is the correct IAC? Would the shops scan tool know, or does that just measure its voltage and such?

If it's not the problem this guy thinks it is, do you think that his scanner would be able to pick up on it? It sounds like it has a trouble shooter and such, as well.

 

[gijoecam]

Why couldn't it be a trans issue? If you drop it in drive, and the torque converter locks while you're stopped, that could cause it...

But as for it being an engine issue, it could be any of a plethora of sensors... A knowledgable tech with a proper scan tool can pull up the engine sensors and check that they're reading within spec. Personally, I would suspect a TPS, MAF, or some other sensor that's reading within its normal range, but not reading properly within that range... e.g. telling the ECU that the engine's at WOT, or that it's hot when it's still cold... something to that effect. Again, without being able to see what the PCM/ECU are seeing, it's a guessing game at best.

I'm afraid this may be one of those cases that's impossible to troubleshoot over the 'net. It happens.

 

[dixonab]

I have a similar problem

Only happens when the engine is hot, and happens most frequently after a highway romp. I have a '99 Explorer Sport with a 4.0L engine, but I'm told I may in fact have a '98 engine on it (thanks a lot Ford for telling me that).

This has been happening for years. It is NOT the IAC (replaced it twice). Cleaned out the MAF sensor....

personally, I think it may be related to the torque converter....but I have nothing to base that on, other than gut feel.....

I will be waiting to read how you got this fixed.


....Just wait until it's really cold out and you start getting the OBD II codes P-0171 and P-0174 (even though your O2 sensors are fine).....drives me nuts...now I just keep clearing the codes, since the mechanic's couldn't find any vaccum leaks or isues with the O2 sensors...

 

[96eb96]

Point taken. I never paid for the part, so I guess I'll call and cancel. My VSS did have a small dent in the corner, but it doesn't seem to have an affect on the ABS or the speedometer.

I was just talking to someone who had a '98 Explorer a few years back with what sounds to be the exact same issue. He didn't test it in 1 or 2 because he just wanted it fixed ASAP (it is annoying). He took it to Auto Zone and had it scanned. Even though no idiot lights were on on the dash, their scanner said it could be one of three things. He said that they wanted more to install it than it would have cost for just the part, so he installed it himself. He said it was something on the intake manifold, but doesn't remember exactly what it was. Car worked great after he swapped the part out himself. Thoughts?

Real scanners can reveal things far and beyond what you can imagine. The autozone code reader gives very general info, almost like using your feet to estimate board lengths.

They can monitor transmission parameters while the car runs. There is nothing left to do now but scan it. It is possible to see precise air flow, EGR, fuel trims, torque converter lockup, etc.

 

[gijoecam]

Only happens when the engine is hot, and happens most frequently after a highway romp. I have a '99 Explorer Sport with a 4.0L engine, but I'm told I may in fact have a '98 engine on it (thanks a lot Ford for telling me that).

Which 4.0L motor? The SOHC or the OHV? What would make you think you have a 98 engine in your 99 model year Ex? What would lead you to believe there are that many differences to start with?

....Just wait until it's really cold out and you start getting the OBD II codes P-0171 and P-0174 (even though your O2 sensors are fine).....drives me nuts...now I just keep clearing the codes, since the mechanic's couldn't find any vaccum leaks or isues with the O2 sensors...

Assuming you have the SOHC motor, it's likely your lower intake manifold gaskets. Parts are $35 for the 00M12 service kit (00M12 was the TSB they issued for the problem, and includes the oil gallery volume reduction plug and the revised cam chain tensioner for the driver's side) and the install takes a couple hours for the average shade-tree mechanic. There are hundreds (if not more) of members here that have done it. Solves the problem almost every time.

 

[TomCat_Ford]

Thanks. I'll drive her into the transmission shop tomorrow to let one of the people there take it out for a spin and hook it up to their scanner. Cross your fingers for me! Hopefully their scanner can find the problem!

 

[dixonab]

gijoecam

It's the OHV engine.

I was told by a Ford technician (I work for a large NA heat exchanger manufacturer and Ford is our largest customer) that it's possibly a '98 engine in it. He came to this conclusion because he twice gave me a serpentine belt and tension arm for the engine, and both times the belt did not fit (the tension arm worked the second time - first time he gave me the one for the SOHC engine).

So either he's clueless and can't read the proper part #, or he's onto something here. Either way, whatever....

So knowing that it's the OHV engine, do you still suspect the lower intake gasket? I'm no mechanic, and the guys in the back here, although they are great, they are super busy and likely don't have a couple of hours to do this fix. This means I'll have to take it in to my mechanic (who is a good guy - my best pals uncle).

Thanks in advance.

 

[gijoecam]

There is a different, but similar issue with the gaskets on the OHV motors. I've not personally done the repair, but there are plenty of people here who have.

I'm not entirely sure that's the cause of your stalling, but I highly suspect it as being the cause of the lean code (assuming no other vacuum leaks and it's getting good fuel pressure... have you changed the filter?)

 

[dixonab]

gijoecam

There is a different, but similar issue with the gaskets on the OHV motors. I've not personally done the repair, but there are plenty of people here who have.

I'm not entirely sure that's the cause of your stalling, but I highly suspect it as being the cause of the lean code (assuming no other vacuum leaks and it's getting good fuel pressure... have you changed the filter?)

I changed the fuel filter a year ago.....it didn't do anything the last time I changed it. My mechanic has been unable to find any sort of vacuum leaks - he suggested I get the test lab guys here to use a smoker on it, but they don't have the time).

The codes only happen when the temperature outside is lower than -5 degrees Celcius.

 

[TomCat_Ford]

I had the transmission guy look at it. He had a Snap On scan tool. The only fault code dealt with the anti-theft system... engine disabled or something like that, but he didn't think that was the issue because the engine would likely not even start.

He thinks that the solenoid has failed mechanically. With how many miles are on the car and how it drove when he test drove it (shift points were fine, no fault codes other than the one mentioned, etc.), he is almost positive it's the issue. He sold me an used one out of a remaned valve body that he had for $20. Then I picked up the gasket and tranny filter for a little over $20 and some Valvoline tranny fluid... a little over $20. I'll get started on that project here in a bit.

 

[4x4xbrian.com]

for a lean code I would look at the pcv elbows for cracks they are very problematic on all cars. the sohc has a known problem with theirs but the ohv 4.0l is not usually bad but worth a look.

as far as the idea of torque converter being suspect,I say no, they act much different when failing in any way. fist of all they will usually develop so much heat when there is a problem they will boil the fluid. in the process of making this heat they usually lose lock up due to burning the stator shaft seal. or they shed parts and destroy the rest of the trans.

if the tc was locking it would chatter BAD .....as the engine loses rpm the trans loses main pressure and the tc unlocks, rpm rise back and tc relocks this cycle occurs fast and you will know if its the tc. its like a 4000lb vibrator!

my argument against a solenoid is: the tc sol is a normally open sol meaning that it bypasses fluid until energized. even if it fails closed the hydraulic circuit has to also be energized which requires pressure in the third or fouth circuits and governor pressure roughly equal to mainline.
I believe that if its a trans prob it will not be a simple fix likely clutch pac damage.

next question is in more detail how does the engine die out, abrupt/ violent or fading / piddle out. if you come to a gradual stop does it stil die, can you feel downshifts, what speed does it die out in. what does the fluid look like

 

[TomCat_Ford]

Well I just got back from a 50-60 mile test drive... all seems to be a-OK. Normally I could get it to stall within 1.5-2 miles from home. I went that far, stopped, about 8 more miles, stopped, about 12 miles, stopped, and then drove to town to get fuel and such. I did a lot of stopping when driving around town (picked roads with several stop signs and not just flashing lights), and I couldn't get it to hiccup at all. Hopefully the problem is fixed (it sure seems like it is).

 

[4x4xbrian.com]

your luck is better than mine!

congrats!

 

[96eb96]

which solenoid? The one that controls the torque converter?